- Encourage polygamy.
- If he take him another wife.... -- Exodus 21:10
- If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated.... -- Deuteronomy 21:15
- Encourage adultery.
- And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms. -- Hosea 1:2
- Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress.... So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley. -- Hosea 3:1-2
- Encourage the buying and selling of wives.
- And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines.... And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well.... Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife. -- 1 Samuel 18:25-27
- Discourage marriage.
- It is good for a man not to touch a woman. -- 1 Corinthians 7:1-2
- For I would that all men were even as I myself.... I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. -- 1 Corinthians 7:7-9
- Discourage sex in marriage.
- But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none. -- 1 Corinthians 7:29
- Encourage divorce.
- If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her.... -- Deuteronomy 22:13
- When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. -- Deuteronomy 24:1-2
So in the war on marriage, the republicans are fighting the wrong enemy. It's not gay marriage that needs to be outlawed; it's the Bible.
29 comments:
interesting--
when anyone begins making the metaphors of their religious text realities, they don't last long beyond that point. and that works both ways. when criticism reads verse literaly, it loses all potency.
either way, i wish more 'believers' would at least examine these issues.
I can see how you came to understand this, but none of those verses, (or anywhere in the Bible) actually condones polygamy, it is merely recorded.
Paul never says you can't marry, he says to avoid immorality, "But because of immoralities, "each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband." (1Cor 7:2).
Mark said...
"I can see how you came to understand this, but none of those verses, (or anywhere in the Bible) actually condones polygamy, it is merely recorded."
No, but it does provide instructions for marrying more than one wife (Ex.21:10 and Dt.21:15).
Mark said...
"Paul never says you can't marry...."
No, but he sure discourages it in 1 Cor.7:1-2 and 7:7-9.
Steve,
Unfortunately you make no point whatsoever.
It seems that the original post can't make it's claim within the Bible.
Don't blame Paul that he recognizes how tough marriage is, which is the point of his comments.... it is hard.
A cursory review of marriage stats proves that not enough people are committed enough to stay married, that is how tough it is. I think alot of those divorced people wished they had taken Pauls advice and stayed single in the first place as opposed to going through the pain and sufering of a failed marriage and divorce.
"If you enjoy your SAB so much, maybe you should read http://www.tektonics.org/sab/sab.html to get a clearer idea on where the SAB makes a mountain of a molehill."
Oh, I've seen it, Jason. And I love it! That's why I am displaying Turkel's responses and providing links to his site at the SAB. I recommend that people go there to see his responses. Here's his defense of Deuteronomy 21:22, for example:
"Other than SAB's weenie attitude towards such things, the problem is what? This is the kind of person who thinks it's an argument against the death penalty to point out about the smell of singed hair."
It's okay for God to tell us to kill people and hang there dead bodies on trees because I am a weenie.
All of your points aside here that I will eventually come to address in my own blog, a funny thought occurs to me that while not everyone agrees that marriage was originally instituted by the Bible, it may be more of a safe bet that divorce was instituted by the Bible.
Seems the biggest arguments stem from the interpretation of a given biblical verse. We could seemingly spend eternity arguing over what was originally intended, but we may never know, given the translation upon translation the bible has been through. Original meaning/intent has been lost or reinterpreted to support how we feel about a given issue or moral arguement.
Big waste of time and energy IMHO. Instead of spending hours tossing insults and and arguing over "what (insert bible verse here) really means" just love and live your religion as you see fit and be done with it.
I hate that. People keep saying 'Its the context', "Its the interpretation'
There's a lot of things up to interpretation, but when a part of 'The Law' tells you its ok to kill someone and hang them from a tree, its saying just that.
The bible is the inspired word of god. If its something he didn't want in the bible HE WOULDN'T HAVE PUT IT THERE.
Or, you're wrong saying that and its hogwash anyway.
I think it is funny that whoever made this site put the parts of verses but didn't put where you can read the verse in context. Obviously, those who believe these lies are not hearers and doers of the Word of God. The Bible encourages sex IN marriage and discourages PREMARITAL sex. When we have sex with a person we are making a covenant with them, a covenant that is only supposed to be with a husband or wife.
The Law does NOT say that it is okay to kill someone and hang them from a tree. The Law (which are the Ten Commandments) says THOU SHALT NOT KILL. After Judas betrayed Jesus, he killed himself by hanging himself from a tree. The BIble later is talking about the disciples and says that all made it to Heaven but one. It wasn't the one who betrayed Jesus, Peter, because God forgives...but Judas killed. The scripture does not say thou shalt not kill anyone but yourself...it says thou shalt not kill. Jesus said he comes to bring life and life abundantly. I believe the best comment I can make is to when you see something about a scripture on a web site go study it yourself and not just take it as truth because it says it on the internet. Know the Word of God and then base your opinion on that. Truth IS NOT RELATIVE. The Holy Word of God is the ONLY truth we have. Keep that close to your heart and RESIST SATAN AND HE WILL FLEE!
Father God, I Thank You for bringing me to this site so that I can see how much our world needs You. I pray that every person that comes into this site will read the actual Bible and not scriptures parts from a web page to base their opinions on. God I pray that you wreck the lives of your creation until we make You the Lord of our lives and realize that Jesus dies for us. God I am sorry that we take for granted our freedom that we have and use it for evil. I know that YOUR Word will not return void and although these people are reading a misinterpretation of Your Word, the truth will become known to them. If only they would believe all the promises in the Bible like we do these ridiculous assumptions. The Bible also says that "Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord." Unfortunately, many of those will be at judgement when it is too late, so I ask that you prick hearts and change lives. I thank You that if it is Your will, that this website fail and miraculously disappears. We do not fight against flesh and blood but all of the powers of the darkness. Help us to see that we do not fight against each other but Satan who comes to steal, kill and destroy us, and this website is a part of his plan... I love you Father. Amen
I would like to point out that just because something was done in history,does not mean it is prevalent now. THe verses used are verses from the old testament. Jesus came so that we did not have to live the way poeple did in the old testament. I guess since you are assuming that god allows these things, then I should assume that ALL white people are prejudice because at one time there was slavery. I guess I should also assume that women should stay home and not work and men should be drafted to war against their will because that is how it used to be. Life changes over time. There are parts of the Bible that are simply used for history. On the marriage subject maybe you should read Song of Solomon, there is a true love story about a couple who was madly inlove. The way GOD planned it to be. Maybe you should read that like you this misuse of scripture and let that form your beliefs and relationships. That is how God intended it to be.
Jesus Loves you too! Even though you misuse His scripture.
1Co 7:7 -
I wish everyone could get along without marrying, just as I do. But we are not all the same. God gives some the gift of marriage, and to others he gives the gift of singleness.
1Co 7:14 - For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not have a godly influence, but now they are set apart for him.
1Co 7:29 - Now let me say this, dear brothers and sisters: The time that remains is very short, so husbands should not let marriage be their major concern.
1Co 7:39 - A wife is married to her husband as long as he lives. If her husband dies, she is free to marry whomever she wishes, but this must be a marriage acceptable to the Lord.
Heb 13:4 - Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery.
Ex 20:14 - "Do not commit adultery.
Le 20:10 - "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.
De 5:18 -
"'Do not commit adultery.
De 22:22 - adultery, both he and the other man's wife must be killed. In this way, the evil will be cleansed from Israel.
Pr 6:32 - But the man who commits adultery is an utter fool, for he destroys his own soul.
Ps 43:1 -
O God, take up my cause! Defend me against these ungodly people. Rescue me from these unjust liars.
Mal 2:16 - "For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "It is as cruel as putting on a victim's bloodstained coat," says the LORD Almighty. "So guard yourself; always remain loyal to your wife."
Mt 19:8 -
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted divorce as a concession to your hard-hearted wickedness, but it was not what God had originally intended.
Le 18:22 - "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
Mt 16:3 -
red sky in the morning means foul weather all day.' You are good at reading the weather signs in the sky, but you can't read the obvious signs of the times!
Job 17:12 - They say that night is day and day is night; how they pervert the truth!
Ps 25:5 -
Lead me by your truth and teach me, for you are the God who saves me. All day long I put my hope in you.
Ps 26:3 -
For I am constantly aware of your unfailing love, and I have lived according to your truth.
Pr 8:7 -
for I speak the truth and hate every kind of deception.
Pr 12:19 - Truth stands the test of time; lies are soon exposed.
Isa 8:20 - "Check their predictions against my testimony," says the LORD. "If their predictions are different from mine, it is because there is no light or truth in them.
Isa 42:4 - He will not stop until truth and righteousness prevail throughout the earth. Even distant lands beyond the sea will wait for his instruction."
Jer 38:15 - Jeremiah said, "If I tell you the truth, you will kill me. And if I give you advice, you won't listen to me anyway."
" I would like to point out that just because something was done in history,does not mean it is prevalent now. THe verses used are verses from the old testament. Jesus came so that we did not have to live the way poeple did in the old testament. I guess since you are assuming that god allows these things, then I should assume that ALL white people are prejudice because at one time there was slavery. I guess I should also assume that women should stay home and not work and men should be drafted to war against their will because that is how it used to be. Life changes over time. There are parts of the Bible that are simply used for history. On the marriage subject maybe you should read Song of Solomon, there is a true love story about a couple who was madly inlove. The way GOD planned it to be. Maybe you should read that like you this misuse of scripture and let that form your beliefs and relationships. That is how God intended it to be."
It isn't about the fact that God ( New Testament Jehovah anyway) changed the rules for marriage as the years went by ( for that matter there are verses in the Bible that say God's laws are unchanging and always in effect and yet they morph continuously throughout the Bible which has more to do with the changing ways of the society instead of actual laws laid down by a god) but more about how these things were ever deemed morally right by a supposedly unchanging God who mysteriously has many different rules ordained for marriage. Curious enough polygamy and concubines just seemed to fall out of the picture in the new and improved, softer, gentler, more "loving" New Testament.................it doesn't matter why the bible changes its tune. The fact remains that the tune changed.How does Jesus coming into the picture in NT magically make polygamy or having concubines wrong all of a sudden if God had said it was all fine and dandy in OT.....Umm, it logically can't and that is why these verses are not truly taken out of context just because the OT rules are somehow denounced because of Jesus. Get real.
I think it is funny that whoever made this site put the parts of verses but didn't put where you can read the verse in context.
If you click on the link next to any of the verses quoted it goes directly to the whole section, complete with even more annotations to enlighten you.
Re polygamy, when a rule is made about how to treat your multiple wives then clearly it must be allowed to *have* multiple wives.
I really wonder if many christians have read much of the bible without being told by someone else a) what to read and b) what it "means".
"Song of Solomon, there is a true love story about a couple who was madly inlove."
This was the dude with 700 wives right? I mean, mad props and all, but is that really the example you were looking for?
Love your blog!! Speaking of Song of Solomon, isn't that where it was basically said that "my lover put a hand near my anus and caused me to move my bowels"? What a beautiful love story!!
The main interpretation of Hosea in my view, speaks to real life. The bible says that a man may divorce his wife for the sole reason of sexual immorality, but it also says that GOD hates divorce. In my own life I married a woman who at one time was a prostitute. We now are seperated but by having a relationship with GOD I have kept my covenant with GOD and she has gone to others. Remember this- for better or for worse. This statement alone covers an unending uncomprimising promise which should only end -Till death due you part. Jesus no matter what we do will always be waiting for us. When we look back HE will be there with HIS arms open. Likewise we should always use JESUS as our rolemodel. For if your wife should leave let her leave and if the man should leave let him leave, but if either can tolerate the other under the family they will sanctify. Keep JESUS as the model and always remember in marriage that as a christian the HOLY SPIRIT is your guide and that GOD hates divorce. The 3 are 1, just like in marriage the two flesh become one!
The author of this article missed the instructions on how to rape a woman and purchase her in Deuteronomy 22 - if a woman does not scream loud enough when she's being raped, that it's her fault (because women weren't supposed to walk alone, without men to 'protect' them) - and if she's compromised she must be stoned to death but if she's not then her father must sell her to her aggressor! At no point does he ask his daughter if she wants to marry the man who just raped her. He just sells her to him.
The price of a woman is fixed in this chapter at 50 shekels of silver. How's that for family values?
Deut. 21 also has instructions on how to do a massacre and rape the surviving women, and how to stone your own son to death if he gets drunk. "All of Israel will know of this and will fear".
In Genesis 30 we see Jacob having sex with FOUR WOMEN: his two wives (who were sisters), and his two slaves/concubines - these four women are the mothers of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Abraham was also a slavemaster and also raped Hagar, his Egyptian slave. Whenever there is more than one wife, there's a favorite one and favorite sons. Joseph, for example, was sold into slaver by his own brothers who were jealous, he was his father's favorite son and his mother was his father's favorite wife. Abraham also kicked his own son and slave into the desert under the whispers of his wife Sarah who had a fit of jealousy and madness. In Genesis 21 SHE ordered him to leave them in the desert, where the Bible admits that it was a miracle that they survived. Yet, in spite of his lack of character and his negligence with his son, Abraham was God's "chosen".
"Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac." - Genesis 21:10
Bible family values for u!
"It's okay for God to tell us to kill people and hang there dead bodies on trees because I am a weenie."
Way to miss the argument by jumping at the ad hominem. So what IS the problem?
I'm sure if I looked at your life....took pieces out of it to fit an obscure version of who I think your are...it would be easy. Truth is, all those things u mention fit perfectly into a blief that has changed peoples lives forever. However, it is Us Christians that mess it up....that is where the blame is. Your points miss the mark, but ur intention makes clear our faults....I thank you for that.
This post reminds me of the way Lucifer takes Biblical quotes out of context and defines them for his own purposes.
Like jeffrey said it is pretty simple to take any excerpt from any written document and justify it for your own means (Congress has been doing it for decades).
I've heard of some of the claims atheists make about Christian doctrine and if I didn't know any better I'd think them religious folk were out of their minds too. Truth is, most of the lies people think about Christians originate from the lord of flies himself. Inherently obscure and, of course, far from reality.
Perhaps you should check out Genesis 2:18, Genesis 2:24, Hebrews 13:4, Proverbs 18:22, I Corinthians 7:2-4 (the rest of your quote from above, proves the out of context theory).
You should probably take into account the time difference as well. The Old Testament was written way before Christ walked the earth, so bashing Christians for Old Testament texts is a little absurd, is it not? True Christians should still respect the laws of the Torah but a lot about culture has changed in the past few thousand years. A king having many wives was the way life worked back then. Oh and concubines aren't as common as they were before either.
If your God is so great, why would he make an imperfect religion, only to fix it over 1000 years later? The Biblical God has the maturity of a child. And why would a righteous God blame the entire human race for one man's sin and give us atonement through faith in a dead Jewish carpenter? May the Flying Spaghetti Monster endow you with knowledge from his noodly appendage.
This is interesting to me, as after being raised an atheist I began to search for 'my inner truth' in my 40's. I was going thru a big crises in my life and honestly needed something larger than me to rely upon.
I felt I had a 'spiritual' encounter and I attributed it to the Holy Spirit and began to study the Bible.
I began with the New Testament and began to search many things within myself which resulted in something I can only compare to therapy that worked. Applied correctly there is much to be gleaned from the NT in the Bible.
But when I began to read the Old Testament I had all kinds of problems. It was much harder to find spiritual truths there. In fact, my natural ability to desire 'proof' returned and the harder I've tried to find solid evidence to substantiate the wars, other events and people in it, I simply can't. No Moses, No Exodus, No Solomon, No 1st temple, No entitlement for the Israeli's to that land, etc.
In fact, all I can say is that I have far more questions than answers these days. And the fundies scare the crap out of me.
During this time I wound up getting married to a great guy who has half his family in what I guess I'd term a 'cult'. They are sabbatarians and take the bible literally. Something I've never been able to do. And what makes it even less palatable is how much money God seems to require. They actually believe you can purchase blessings and like the Bush admin, love living in fear of whether or not they are saved (safe).
They are an OT loving bunch. Still...
there are great lessons if you are soul searching but for me the Kingdom remains within. It's about finding harmony, learning to give and receive love and to be more compassionate. The rest of this jazz is but a bunch of fables and rules. So in a very big way I've benefitted from this experience but I've also come to the conclusion that any religious book that causes this much division in humanity is NOT divine.
I understand that people don't want their 'truth' proven crap.
But so many adopted this straight from their parents they never really had a choice to become free thinking individuals and that's a shame.
They could believe in God and not feel threatened by your mostly valid points here otherwise.
A freethinker! (r)Amen! :)
I've heard of Christians and Muslims who turned atheist, but rarely about an atheist who went into faith and went out again. You are indeed correct, a supposedly holy book that sets humanity against itself isn't holy at all.
Yes, all questioners are being influenced by Satan so we don't need to respond to their arguments...
I'm sorry, but does anybody actually believe that is at all logical?
It is vital that you always put what you are reading from the Holy Bible into context. For instance, actions of human characters in the old testement are there to describe the darkness of a man's heart. In the New testement, there is a lightness which inspires and motivates readers of the Holy Bible to move past those obstacles from the old testement. Remember & don't forget that the thread between the old and new testements is the birth of Christ and this is so powerful that it makes this year that I am typing this 2010 years since Christ's physical birth!
There is one critical element you may need to completely understand the Bible which you can only receive when you are found.
Signed,
a seeker of truth
'Out of context', 'interpretation', 'Old Testament times reflected' etc etc etc.
My beef is with literalists who can't have it both ways. The Bible is God's word, to be read as written, taken at face value. Thus creation is accepted as described & it gets no more OT than Genesis. Literalists want to force everyone to accept the Word as written. They constantly tell us so. They want creationism taught in schools.
Then they wriggle when confronted with passages that challenge their literalism. God endorsing pillage & rape? God acknowledging multiple wives?
Fundamentalists amuse me with their antics. I wish they'd stop trying to force feed people with their literalist beliefs. Believe every word as written if they wish but keep their views to themselves & stop trying to smugly assume the moral high ground.
JB
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