I kill ... I wound ... I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. -- Deuteronomy 32:39-42How many people did God kill in the Bible?
It's impossible to say for sure, but plenty. How many did God drown in the flood or burn to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptians did he kill? There's just no way to count them all.
But sometimes the Bible tells us exactly how many were killed by God. So what happens if you total all of these killings? What number do you get?
Well, here's what I came up with: 2,476,633
Note that this number is a gross underestimate of the total number. It doesn't include, in many cases, women and children, and it completely leaves out some of God's more impressive kills. (Like the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the firstborn Egyptian children, etc.)
So what happens if you use estimates when the Bible provides only numbers for adult male victims or no numbers at all?
Here's my estimate: 25 million
And here is a complete list of all of God's killings in the Bible.
Much more information about God's killings, with a chapter on each of the 135 killing events, can be found int the book:
185 comments:
so in california God would DEFINITELY be sittin on death row.
You counted Nadab and Abihu twice.
Thanks for the correction.
they all deserved it...
What about his own son??? Wasn't it God's plan even if others carried it out?
What would be really interesting to know is how many people God's rival, Lucifer, has murdered. Who is truly the champion in the "Death" match?
I think you ought to make a distinction between different kinds of killing, although I have no doubt the total would be high. On one level, if you want to count anybody who died as a result of God's action, then that's everyone who ever lived.
What I think is perhaps worthwhile in looking to this list in detail is, who among these people were killed for what purpose? I would suggest these categories:
A) Killed as a result of their aggression against the nation of Israel. (example)
B) Killed as a result of enmity between them and Israel, but not specifically the violent agression of the victim in particular.(possible example)
C) Killed as a result of their sin that made God angry. (example)
D) Killed as a result of somebody else's sin. (example)
E) Reason not given. (example)
I think each of these categories deserve different consideration. Definitely A and maybe B are a matter of defensive killing. Many of those in category C make some sense from a theological point of view. I think D and E are the real tough ones.
Outstanding, great post, very interesting. I had always known there was a lot of killing by God in the Bible, but I had never spent the time to count it up. Now I don't have to, thanks!
I agree, Brucker, it would help to categorize them. Maybe I'll do that before long.
What about the flood? God killed everyone on earth except Noah and his family.
i personally dont think that someone's crime necessarily justifies their death! if you kill someone for doing something bad (even if they've killed someone), then you're just as bad as they are.
Those she-bears sure loved them some good finger lickin' chil'en.
you forgot all of the kings listed in Joshua. Why don't you list all of the cities that were destroyed as well. Again, at least 12 entire cities destroyed in Joshua.
12:9 The king of Jericho, one; the king of Ai, which is beside Bethel, one;
12:10 The king of Jerusalem, one; the king of Hebron, one;
12:11 The king of Jarmuth, one; the king of Lachish, one;
12:12 The king of Eglon, one; the king of Gezer, one;
12:13 The king of Debir, one; the king of Geder, one;
12:14 The king of Hormah, one; the king of Arad, one;
12:15 The king of Libnah, one; the king of Adullam, one;
12:16 The king of Makkedah, one; the king of Bethel, one;
12:17 The king of Tappuah, one; the king of Hepher, one;
12:18 The king of Aphek, one; the king of Lasharon, one;
12:19 The king of Madon, one; the king of Hazor, one;
12:20 The king of Shimronmeron, one; the king of Achshaph, one;
12:21 The king of Taanach, one; the king of Megiddo, one;
12:22 The king of Kedesh, one; the king of Jokneam of Carmel, one;
12:23 The king of Dor in the coast of Dor, one; the king of the nations of Gilgal, one;
12:24 The king of Tirzah, one: all the kings thirty and one.
Anonymous said...
"You forgot all of the kings listed in Joshua."
Yes, I suppose I could count the 31 kings that the Israelites "smote", although the text doesn't explicitly say that God assisted in their killing -- which is what I was trying to include in the count. So I'll probably leave them out.
"Why don't you list all of the cities that were destroyed as well. Again, at least 12 entire cities destroyed in Joshua."
Because the number of people killed isn't provided, and it also isn't clear that God assisted in the slaughter (although it does seem to be implied by the "Them did Moses the servant of the LORD and the children of Israel smite" in Joshua 12:6).
"Lies and people kill people, not God, not guns."
Either God killed Aaron's sons, or that Biblical account is a lie. Which is it?
Joshua Ditty said...
I think you have forgotten the 'man of god' from 1st Kings Chapter 13.
Thanks Joshua, I've added it to the list.
Jesus Christ, that's a lot of people (no pun intended)!
Nice work!
It's kinda like trying to get a count of how many people Rambo killed; both killed a lot of people, both are fictional characters, thankfully!
To Mr. Caring guy who wrote this gem:
"You will rightfully burn in the realm of nothingess forever..."
...nice, wow, you seem really angry about something. I wonder why such a knowledgeable, intelligent, righteous person like you who's most definitely guaranteed a front row seat into heaven would become so upset at a few people who feel differently than you. I mean you know the truth, right? Why all the anger? I don't recall Jesus getting angry, do you? Not very Christian of you, huh?
Poor guy, you're just mad because the insecurity of your beliefs is being exposed and you don't like it! It's pretty obvious.
Interesting that the only two deaths in the New Testament (After Christ has atoned for human sin) Are "ghosts" given up by the individual due to their actions...
If you're being technical, you might as well add JC too...
"SoldierUnderCommand said...
The question you did not ask was; Is God justified in killing these people.
If God is who He says He is, then He is justified in all that He does. He is the ultimate standard for what is just and unjust.
He can kill who He pleases and is righteous in doing it."
Baddabing Baddaboom. You hit the point dead center.
To Mr. Anonymous who claims that parents and God are on an equal playing field, you are wrong. Let me tell you why:
The reason that parents cannot kill their sons is because we live in a world of laws.
God however, is exempt from all human laws. God is neither subject to even the laws of Physics, nor Time itself.
He is Omnipotent, and created this world that we dwell in. As the creator of the Universe, He may do so as He pleases, and as stated previously, be "righteous in doing it".
God, in a matter of speaking, has the one true 'License To Kill' that which He has created.
I am more than a little confuzed. I fail to see the import of asking how many people god has killed mainly because the scriptures you are basing your numbers on has never been proven. The bible is taken on faith of the accuracy of what it written. Unfortunatly, people dont usualy think of what wasnt written. Seeing that the number is probably much higher. The only question I have is "So what?"
'Suckers like you do deserve death.'
Ah, religious love at its highest. We don't accept your silly immorally-ridden religion so we deserve to die.
That's nothing compared to some hate mail at FSM, but that's for another day.
/Buzz off bozo.
I think my biggest concern is not God that is killing people, since he is in fact creating them just the same, but what is his so called 'plan' that we all end up with? I mean, really did he plan to kill all his creations and flood the earth and only save Noah and his family? Seriously, what about everyone else? What about each and every individual, kinda makes me think we're more than insignificant, we're meaningless to him.
It is bad enough that god takes credit for killing two million plus people in the old testament, but in the new testament he must top himself by promising to send billions of unbelievers into eternal suffering after death. What a wonderful expression of love??
we should also analyse the texts of Koran and Torah to investigate the possible body count in the major "sacred texts"... I think this would clarify that insitutionalised religions have many times killed "in the name" of god because they wrote a text that tries to give them justification for doing so. A God that kills people and judges them is oretty much the most Ungodly thing there is.... thanks for such an interesting post!
Dear regigios nut with the long "burn in the realm of nothingess forever" rant,
Exodus 23
23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
23:32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.
You're covenanting with us...I'll see you in hell brother^^.
"unless you get out of that shallow paradox you think you're so smart in"
If you have read the bible you will find more paradoxes there then here.
"All Satan did was feed you many lies and prove you are an obvious sucker that has bought into this shallow thinking. Lies and people kill people, not God, not guns."
Religious nuts and politicians lie not Satan.
God blows -,-
Looks like "smoting kills"
What kind of super hero would God be if he couldn't bust a few chops now and then.
As Horkios, Zeus was the keeper of oaths. Liars who were exposed were made to dedicate a statue to him.
What sort of punishment is that??
"You will rightfully burn in the realm of nothingess forever when you die you silly fool; unless you get out of that shallow paradox you think you're so smart in and start believing in the One and Only God that created you and gave you a choice to acceot It or deny It in the fist place. And if you deny It, you will be destroyed by your own making. All Satan did was feed you many lies and prove you are an obvious sucker that has bought into this shallow thinking. Lies and people kill people, not God, not guns. Suckers like you do deserve death. But you can also save yourself by believing in Who Jesus said He was. I feel sorry for your shallow, tainted brain."
Next time the pope wants to quote somebody about the brutality of Islam, he should take a look at this moron in his theological backyard. It's comforting to be able to accept things like the Bible or Hesiod's Theogeny on faith, since it removes all responsibility from the individual. To think for one's self, however, is much more difficult. A tyrant God is no God at all.
Well it sure is a pity this God has stopped killing people as this little wee world is definitely getting overcrowded! :^)
God is the one who lit the "candles of life" within every person born on this planet. As the creator, he has rightful authority over that which he creates. Due to the way life was created, God personally allows for the death of every living thing, including us. Like it or not, he who lights the candles gets to blow them out, in any way he sees fit. Murder, car crashes, old age, disease, etc, etc. I wrote a song one time that sucked. I threw it in the garbage. Do I not have that right? Can the clay say to the potter, why are you destroying me? I think not. He gave us all the gift of life, and he can take it away.
Bryan Parker said...
"God however, is exempt from all human laws. God is neither subject to even the laws of Physics, nor Time itself.
He is Omnipotent...yadda yadda"
That's quite paradoxical. As a human, our entire concept of cause and effect presuppose a time frame in which any given event takes place. Think about it...for you to claim that something 'caused' or 'created' something else, you have to have accepted the premise that the cause came before the effect.
So, in order for your Creator to live up to his name, time must have existed. Humans simply cannot fathom a "beginning of time", because the term 'beginning' implied that there was time BEFORE that event, in which that certain event never took place. Again, causation presupposes both existence and time. Either god is subject to the the contraints of time and therefore is not omnipotent or he does not exist at all.
You make two mistakes. First, you are ommitting the The New Testament's message that God has sacrified Himself for us. Then, you are judging God as if He were a mere human being.
Religious wars are naught but,"hmm lets see who has the best imaginary friend..." Fucking retards...btw the reason humanity exists is this..."To fight and die is why we're born." Suck on that. May Tyr guide you in battle. Vahalla can wait,Im going to war. -BloodyChuckles
how many people were born as a result of G!d
Good job counting the people who died in that book, I wonder how many other people in history have tried that over the years. Its a pitty it never be possible to count the people who died as a result of that book. We could have put a shrine or somthing to the damage its caused like they do for the world wars and car accidents.
As for all this talk about is it ok for a god to kill what he created the answer is simple. There is no god, there is no intelegent design, nothing is planned out to kill you at that exact moment of your death. Ultimatly, shit happens.
I am 33 and have just read the bible from cover to cover for the first time (took me about three weeks). When I was a kid I had to go to go to Sunday school for a few years and had bible study back then I found it all a bit dull (I think I was only told to read the new testament). I am not really a religious man but I read it in the spirit of trying to understand something that a lot of other people hold as being important to them and thereby improving my understanding of other people. On this re-visit to the bible however I found it compelling reading.
I was shocked at how violent the old testament is and how sadistic and thoroughly unpleasant it would seem that god is (if he / she exists)! I couldn't really find anything in there would make me think god was nice or admirable. From the old testament. The only thing I really got (apart from interesting look into history) was that god is very scary, moody and violent. So after reading the bible the obvious question for me was "so how many deaths".
So I thank you for the information. I will probably read more of the site it's very interesting.
Regards
Paul
Have fun in Hell.
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That's quite paradoxical. As a human, our entire concept of cause and effect presuppose a time frame in which any given event takes place. Think about it...for you to claim that something 'caused' or 'created' something else, you have to have accepted the premise that the cause came before the effect.
So, in order for your Creator to live up to his name, time must have existed. Humans simply cannot fathom a "beginning of time", because the term 'beginning' implied that there was time BEFORE that event, in which that certain event never took place. Again, causation presupposes both existence and time. Either god is subject to the the contraints of time and therefore is not omnipotent or he does not exist at all.
Thu Oct 26, 02:33:00 PM 2006
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http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c039.html
Read the whole thing please, I hope it makes sense (btw I used to be like you)
Great work here Wells. I'm writing a paper on theology, and started counting God's kills in the Bible in order to point out some necessary conditions in defining an "omnibenevolent" God from Biblical exegesis; after finding one or two I remembered, I found your site. Thanks so much for your help.
First of all, we must respect other points of view, talkig about the religion tends to be very polemic,
to say the truth, I do not believe in any god (Yavee specilly), so i cannot apply the subjectivity to say, "god is the creator, so he can do as he please" we must understand that the bible was written by a small civilization, only willing to worship its own god, the mentality of these ancient civilizations was very hostile and stubborn, so, please answer these question, If God helped his crowd (Israel) by destroying others civilizations to the ashes so they could win power and lands, and now a days it seems the same way (the cruel battles that have had israel against palestina, libano, etc) (why didn´t he protect the jews in world war II........) Why did God make the most stupid, ridiculous and bloody things to "raise" the jews as the most powerful race in the world, and why the hell he does not help the people whom really need help (In africa, In India, In Latin America, In china), why he lets the robber, the assesin, the corrupt, raise higher, and why he did punish people who had flow of semen, virgins that did not show her cothes with the blood of her first relation, cruelty to blasphemy, prophecy and destruction, etc...???
Even jesuschrist was jew, and he was proud of it, he did not want to spread the "word" to another people, only jews, (women of cananea), i admit he was a wise guy, but he´s that smart to consider him the absolut truth, the bible is what it is today becouse of a smart move that was made in roma between the III an IV century, during the reign of constantin, blame the jews for the death of jesus and make the romans the innocents guys and the chosen ones to spread the "truth"....but please, only as a request, do not read these polemic comments with a closed mind, try to see them with all the objectivity possible..... thanks.......
Your quote at the top should read:
See now that I, eve I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Talks about how God is like THE God, over everything - death and life. In the Old Testament He deals out both.
But killing isnt murder, and when God does something there is a reason.
In recent news Saddam Hussein was killed for what he'd done, and even many who are against the death penalty were for
his death. Certainly I'm against the death penalty, but I note that here its God carrying it out and not a human, its an
all-knowing judge who is never wrong.
so...
1.
Lots wife had just been liberated, rather than assasinated.
She was warned not to look back. What she was looking back on was, I think, a sight humans cant take in, a bit supernatural.
She turned into salt.
2.
What do we know about this guy? He was wicked in the sight of the Lord. So what did he do?
We dont know. Could've committed attrocities I can't even think of.
3.
Thats a fair point, but I would argue that you need to take into account the context.
For me reading that the first time it just looks like the main topic is the sperm.
But in context:
Children, specifically descendants, were of huge cultural importance at this time.
When the husband died, it was his brothers responsibility culturally to insure that his
family line continued and he did have offspring. Now to me thats offensive, but this is
a completely different millenia, a totally different culture here.
Its my understanding that in this kind of society where your industries are agriculture
and war, wives didnt have much else to tie their dreams to apart from descendants and
family (unless you get a slightly butch wife into the war fighting and the shepharding and that).
Its my understanding from context that Omans act of withdrawing his sperm was out of
absolute hatred and loathing for his brother.
4.
That is a pretty powerful example.
From a spiritual point of view they have been liberated out of Egypt by miracles like the parting
of the red sea, and the very acts that brought about that liberation from 440 years of slavery.
They are only alive because God protects them from their enemies. They are only alive because
God gives them food (manna) to survive. Thats them from a spiritual point of view - dependant on God.
Now they've tried to cut off God - which is to cut off their entire food supply, cut off their protection, and
to throw their fledgling nation back into captivity. Often times we think well if God exists why doesn't
He show us a massive finger from heaven pointing at us and saying yes I exist. Well these guys practically
got that.
5.
First off, you dont lark around at the Lord's altar.
Secondly, if you have a high position and are a member of the priesthood you don't teach others to do it either.
6.
There has to be a respect of God as God. Now this person will have literally seen incontrovertible evidence
that God is real and has saved him from death in slavery under the egyptians, and he still blasphemes.
7.
One of the first things in their law was to observe the sabbath. He broke that chief law, deliberately because he
'defiantly...despised the Lord's word'
If he did it unintentionally, the priest would have interceded for him.
8.
They tried to take over God's country and take down His prophet, steal it all for themself - God moved back against them.
9.
ditto.
for berevity gonna go over the more dramatic sounding ones, but happy to go over any that are missed out...
"Middianite Massacre" -
See numbers 25:1-5 and numbers 25:17-18 for the context here.
The virgins had nothing to do with the events of Baal of Peor.
"Samsons act of terrorism"
These people were bent on destroying God's people. God doesn't just let them do that.
That applies for a swathe of the examples given.
"Davids census"
David seemed to lapse in trusting God at this point and wanted to trust in his census of his countrys fighting ability.
He had been forbidden from taking a census - God said not to do it. He did it anyway. And the people in question,
even though God told them not to, signed it anyway. In this sense they abandoned God and followed their own way
of confronting their enemies. The whole thing was a tragedy and reminds them that lead to lead properly, for their
actions carry consequences.
"gang of children making fool of elisha"
The translations I use describe a gang of youths. If I had a gang of youths coming up to me and jeering at me I
would feel somewhat intimidated. I think its naive to think they didn't mean to attack him.
God had by Himself used Elisha to restore water and heal people in the area already, and hes attacked.
"the Lord smote the ethiopians"
My brief reading indicates this was a great big army trying to destroy Israel, and Israel asked for help.
God helped them, and they won the battle.
"Herod died"
Through his speech, Herod set himself up as a god, and set himself up against God, but he shouldnt have because
he can't fight god. He did this even though in his own land God had revealed himself by sending Jesus to die.
If you wanna get the message of the Bible then please don't miss out the gospels.
There is a juxtaposition in the bible of God the righteous judge and God who loves us.
When you talk about nations and laws and all that you see the judge side of it. Its only when you look at the peoples
individual relationship (eg Psalms, Moses, epistles, gospels) that you see the love side. For me the gospels explain
much of the bible, the centre stuff that we don't demand an answer from God about but that God demands an answer from
us about.
That's quite paradoxical. As a human, our entire concept of cause and effect presuppose a time frame in which any given event takes place. Think about it...for you to claim that something 'caused' or 'created' something else, you have to have accepted the premise that the cause came before the effect.
So, in order for your Creator to live up to his name, time must have existed. Humans simply cannot fathom a "beginning of time", because the term 'beginning' implied that there was time BEFORE that event, in which that certain event never took place. Again, causation presupposes both existence and time. Either god is subject to the the contraints of time and therefore is not omnipotent or he does not exist at all.
This, interestingly, was one of the paradoxes that Rabbi Akiva attempted to deal with in the Around Year Zero era. He and three other rabbis attempted to make some way of using Greek philosophy, and the ideas of testable science, and see if they couldn't make some kind of synthesis between the Jewish faith-based beliefs and the rational Greek philosophy of the larger Greco-Roman culture.
According to tradition, Rabbi Meir backed out of the project early, Rabbi Elisha ben Abuyah lost his faith and gave up on Judaism, and Rabbi Yochanon (I think, I forget exactly who the third was) went crazy and died. And only Rabbi Akiva managed to find a way that he felt comfortable with.
Now, for me, I think of it this way: if we think of time as a fourth spacial dimension, which, y'know, we CAN, we can imagine God to be OUTSIDE of the fourspace of our universe, looking in on it. God can therefore see the entire timeline of the universe from begining to end.
So, does this mean that we cannot have free will, that everything is predestined? Well, that is one theological position -- some Calvanists worked on this assumption. And I've encountered physicists who, more or less, believe something similar: that the entire four-space of our universe exists, and therefore we have already, in a sense, done everything we are going to do, and that the illusion of free will is simply based on the fact that our perceptions of reality are moving directionally through the four-space of the universe.
And that means that we have no free will.
Me, I look at it a little differently.
For the sake of argument, I'm going to try to have it both ways. I'm going to assume that this four-space model of the universe is more-or-less correct, and yet I'm ALSO going to assume that, in some sense or other, we have free will. And see if I can't come up with SOME way of combining those two ideas that I can sort of squish my brain around.
I'm a human being, and that means, according to this model, that I can percieve, from moment to moment, only that infetesimally thin slice of the fourspace that is the "present" at any moment. That moment that I can perceive progresses forward through the "time" axis of the universe at one second per second (um, barring relatavistic effects? I really can't wrap my brain around the math for this one. But, in any case, it's probably close enough to work.)
Now, I cannot perceive any moment ahead or behind me. However, because of memory and records, I can, in a sense, have some kind of imperfect simulation of perception of the moments behind me.
So, let's say that I'm reading a history book, and it says that, say, Alexander the Great did not go on to attempt to conquer India. Or, let's say that I'm remembering my day, and I remember that I brushed my top teeth before I brushed my bottom teeth this morning.
If we accept a common definition of free will, we can state that Alexander COULD have chosen to attempt to invade India, or that I COULD have chosen to brush my bottom teeth before my top teeth.
Yet he didn't, and I didn't.
Does the fact that we DIDN'T make those choices mean that we COULDN'T have made those choices?
Well, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it? I feel that it does NOT mean that. We COULD HAVE chosen differently, we simply DIDN'T.
And therefore, the fact that our actions are locked in the past does NOT mean that we did NOT have free will.
Now, if that logic holds true for the past, then it would hold true for the future, as well. We have free will, and we will freely choose all the choices of our life.
Yet we could imagine a God who existed outside of this timeline, who could perceive the entire timeline at once.
And I believe that there is not an inherent contradition between those ideas -- that we exist in a timeline in which things have happened, are happening, and will happen, and that we make choices in the "are happening" stage which affect the "will happen" stage, and that we make those choices freely -- yet something could exist OUTSIDE that timeline which could perceive that timeline.
It makes my brain hurt to think about it, and I don't expect the argument to convince everyone, but that's my way of reconciling the paradox of "free will" vs "omniscience".
I think the important question is whether or not we should count all the armies that have pledged "for god and country" and their confirmed kill count as well. If we accept that religious fanatacism as chronicled in the Bible is the core cause of most of these tallies, then the kill count must be higher. - alienbinary
Hmmm...
So God kills 2.27 million people (including women and children) and yet is still loved by many.
Hitler comes along and kills 6 million people (including women and children), and is remembered as an evil man.
Is there a numerical limit on the number of people (including women and children) you can kill before you flip from being a good person to a bad one?
I think its amazing people believe in this nonsense and take it so seriously.
Maybe in a few thousand years they'll realize its all a load of hooey... just like Mt Olympus. Jeeze; the human race as one shallow learning curve.
this is in the bible, i wonder, throughout history, how many has the abrahamic god killed in real life?
[What if God played video games?]
Congratulations. You have made a new high score:
2,270,369 points
Please enter your initials:
G O D_
FEORI
Interesting that those lives being killed by satan's influence via alcohol/drug use, murders, and suicides to name a few are not mentioned or even our main concern. God have mercy on us all, that we not be one of those satan decides to use in the near future.
God's existence is proven by the very fact that people want to try to disprove his existence. Deep down everyone knows God exists, but they want to sin and not feel guilty about it, so they try to convince themselves that God doesn’t really exist and that they won’t be punished for their sins. This is why people get in such heated debates about whether or nor God exists, because they cannot fully convince themselves and they want others to agree with them so they won't feel as guilty. If God didn’t exist, then people wouldn’t care so much when the subject was brought up.
John 3:19-20 “The light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. They hate the light because they want to sin in the darkness. They stay away from the light for fear their sins will be exposed and they will be punished.”
This is what Jesus is saying in these verses. Despite the undeserved kindness and love he has shown mankind, people will still hate him because they want to sin without feeling guilty about it, which is why they crucified him.
John 7:7 “The world hates me because I accuse it of sin and evil.”
Don’t think that I am a hypocrite though, I know I have sinned. I was addicted to pornography/masturbation for about 10 years (and I’m only 20 now), but I admit that I am a sinner and that I needed Jesus to save me, and now I am no longer addicted pornography/masturbation. Sure, I still sin, but no where near as much as I did before.
As to God killing people, can you honestly tell me that you loved those people more than he did? No, you can’t, you’re just looking for another way to convince yourself that God doesn’t exist so you can feel less guilty about your sins. God alone is righteous, and though you can’t always understand why he does something, he has never sinned. God doesn’t send people to hell, you send yourself there. God has offered the free gift of salvation to everyone, you have no right to blame him because you refused the free gift he wanted to give you.
I recommend checking out GotQuestions.org if you are interested in God’s gift of salvation, or even if you already have accepted his gift.
I just wanted to say thanks for this list...I'm writing an essay, and was looking for examples of God killing people, especially in battle, directly. I'm contrasting Him to the gods in Homer's Iliad, who never actually kill anyone. The Assyrians will do nicely, I think. Thanks!
"Deep down everyone knows God exists, but they want to sin and not feel guilty about it, so they try to convince themselves that God doesn’t really exist and that they won’t be punished for their sins."
ummm... no. This is simply incorrect. I (like many) know that there is no god. and yet, I do feel shame for things I have done in my life.
I have the ability to feel shame for things I did in the past because as I have matured I can see that some things I did in the past were not in my or someone elses best interests. I do not call these things I have done "sins" as the word is not part of my vocabulary. The word "punishment" is in my vocabulary, punishments comes from other people.
The motivation to keep from continuing to do things that are not in my own or other people's best interest is simply that life is better when all living things and all the things that they relie on are treated with respect & understanding. It is a very strong motivation, and all that is necessary.
sal
It's great to have a resource such as this, I'm just wondering why it took so long for someone to do the work required. I was going to do it myself, but now all I have to do is double-check your count, which I'm fairly sure is as accurate as you could make it. Thanks Steve!
This site is awesome!
Oh no, I am in helllll!
What a lovely man. No seriously, if this "God" would actully consider sending someone to eternal damnation for saying that..He shouldn't be submitted to, he should be resisted.
Excellent post. Now all christians need to do is accept that, by their own admission (God is unchanging: Mal 3:6, Psalms 102:25-27, Heb 13:8), the supposedly loving god of the New Testament committed all these atrocities in the Old Testament, then they might realise that christianity is not so loving, even if you ignore all the violence committed in god's name.
Amazing how much bickering a fictional character can cause
I could never stand to read the Bible as much as you must have to come up with this list. In fact, I found even this list nauseating.
I made a couple interactive charts with your data
People murdered by God (food)
People murdered by God (sans flood)
Someone mentioned that he killed his own son...
That would be "human sacrifice" the bible (through others or as directly noted from the mouth of God IN the Bible) expressly prohibits human sacrifice, saying that it is something the heathen/pagans do.
It is surprising how "he" contradicts himself.
Hmm...Interesting.
I see that you have deleted the post from the bright and inquizzitive Lachdenan.
Now why would you do something like that unless he was right and it offended you?
My, that is truly a mystery.
What was that? "Any religion is evil, when it expects everyone to follow the same religion."
All to true, Stuart. And, of course, going to church cannot save you. Although Jesus made a regular attendance at the temple and taught there, that is not His requisite for salvation. It is something so simple: belief.
Does it really take so much faith to believe?
It seems that instead of a free marketplace of ideas that this is, in fact, a church without God, wherein, if one is to prove Him or to even give a reasonable opinion in His favor, then that same person shall then be expelled for their heresy in your eyes.
How much longer will you cover them?
I have no problem with God killing people. After all, IF he GIVES life, he can TAKE life AWAY, right?
My problem is that you can't have it both ways. You can't acknowledge those killings and say that God is love, and that his Mercy is infinite, etc, in the same breath.
In my view, either we have a psychopath God that likes to kill people, or God IS love and the bible IS a LIE. Or something else in between. But you can't call such Deity good, loving, and merciful. If someone has an explanation to that I'd like to read.
To an Anonymous who posted this:
"You will rightfully burn in the realm of nothingess forever..."
How can I burn in "nothingess"? And how can nothing become a realm if it has nothing in it or is nothing?
Jackass.
Many believe that every death is the will of God... So He did not kill just these 2,270,369+ but everybody who has ever lived and died.
There is ONE thing that all the Christians who have been flaming this thread are completely missing. Human Laws are based on God's laws. The 10 Commandments people! It is reasonable to assume that any person, all knowing, omnipotent, or otherwise, who preaches one thing but does not act upon thier own teachings, loses any credibility they once had. The saying "Practice What You Preach" comes to mind here. One too many religious zealots have preached the word of their Righteous, Forgiving, and Kind God yet acted in complete ambivalence to the beliefs they hold dear. Don't go saying that God is not subject to Human law when he set forth the whole, "Thou Shalt Not Murder" thing. This is basic common sense, even for a superbeing.
The Aliens from Outer Space must be laughing themselves to death at all our moronic superstitions.
this is incredible i cant see how people can belive that god is good
let me say something about this um
first of all noah told them fools that there was going to be a world wide flood it was there own fault the got killed not god's they were warned they thought they were so smart as do you they were fools
every body that died in the bible where killed because they did not listen ok also god created this world he can destroy if he wants
if you where not so brain washed you would listen but you think your so damn smart without god you would not be here when your standing in front of god himself asking your self why you were a fool and your sorry he will say you had your chance and then he will cast you into the pit of hell
for eternity then you will burn and burn with regret so if you fools dont change your ways an thank god for every second you live god created a perfect world and man messed it up and brought death in to the world because man didnt listen so get your facts right god siad not to eat the fruit of the tree or you shsll die the snake that tricked adam and eve in the garden of eden siad ye shall not surely die you shall become like gods
if you eat the fruit they were tricked as were you im only 17 years old and i now the truth ok if you still think your so smart email me at logoxgx54@yahoo.com if not look into kent hovind he will show you please dont be fools.
there -> their
Everyone in the world didn't listen? Wrong.
It's parents who made everyone, not God, cretin.
It was God who was a liar in the Garden when he said that those who ate the fruit shall surely die; the snake said that they shall not die and would become as gods, which was true.
http://google.com/groups?q=God-lied
And Krist, who said that his generation shall not pass until the tribulation, the end of the world!, and his return (Matt 24:34) was also a liar, as it did not happen by the year -4+33+25=54. If interpretators mean the destruction of the temple in 70, then Matt 24:14 is wrong as the Gospel was not preached to all nations yet (I think it is already, by now, so it'd be wrong today also.) and Matt 24:29-31 are wrong as there were no such celestial signs.
The tribulation already expired.
What you have to understand is that Yahweh is actually not The "God", he is a Sumerian Dragon God originally known as Enlil who flooded the world because people were "too noisy". The real God who created these intelligent dragons out of some kind of dinosaur 100 million years ago had a whole universe to manage so he left the dragon Yahweh in charge, that being a dragon, naturally revels in burning and consuming people, just like the fairytale dragons. The bible even describes him as a dragon, with fire spewing from his mouth and smoke from his nostrils.
he doest exist,so he can't murder
Very useful and thorough analysis. I might also suggest this essay, Victims of the Christian Faith.
Keep up the good work.
Acharya S
Author of The Christ Conspiracy
Holy crap, Steve, I think you've got more comments on this one post than I have on my whole blog!
God is a righteous God and his actions are beyond our limited comprehension! The God that is put into an image and labelled is the creation of the human mind and therefore falls far short of the truth! We sometimes see God as a cuddly Father figure but we forget that He is a God which is above good and evil! He is beyond either because of the enormity of His being! To understand His actions is to understand His being and scale which is a complete figment of our imagination! By that I mean we don’t have the power in terms of mentality or spiritually nor will we! To try and rationally think through Gods actions is to say that He is in some way equal to us which is a lie created to make people doubt our Mighty God! We cant understand the realm in which God is therefore we cannot ever question one of His actions!
What is your explanation for all the rash killings and deaths in the Old Testament Commanded by God – and why are they in such contrast to the New Testament ?
My first thought is that God in fact is not “killing” by definition in our sense of the word. Because its not murder – God is rightfully taking what is his - Life?? And his plans aren’t always known to men.
Secondly of all these thousands of people who died as a direct result of God – Could we not say that anyone who ever dies ANYWHERE is a direct result of God as he is all-knowing, all powerful and in control if everything. He gives life and he takes away.
Thirdly Look at the “Bible Panorama” In its basic terms it is 2 testaments, New and Old, With the centre event being the Death of Christ at the cross. There are so many parallels between the Old and New Testaments.
1 – Blood / Animal sacrifices are needed to a priest – Now no more is needed as Jesus has paid the once and for all salvation (to those who accept)
2 – Old Covenant / New Covenant
3 – God who too holy to be seen by man / Marked by the veil in the Temple – NT – Jesus Christ has been made the mediator between man and God.
4 – God spoke through prophets and dreams / visions – Now he speaks through his word the bible and the actions words of his son. God in humanity.
5 – Prophecy fulfilled to the exact letter and future events yet to be fulfilled
What does this mean? Could it possibly be that the reason why God “let people die” was not because with respect he was going around killing who he pleased irrespective of what they done? NO………………….God is a righteous judge, his ways are not our ways BUT lets look at what people did to deserve this?
(A) Killed as a result of their aggression against the nation of Israel.
(B) Killed as a result of enmity between them and Israel, but not specifically the violent aggression of the victim in particular.
(C) Killed as a result of their sin that made God angry
(D) Killed as a result of somebody else's sin. ???
Now can you see any parallels with the New Testament? God has warned us we are in danger (living in sin) But he is just and righteous, and as per usual has created a solution which is the death of Jesus on the cross i.e what I am saying is that God does not kill innocents, unless they reject his message of warning, then he has no choice because he HAS to be just, its his nature.
...at the end of the times, all will be revived.
oh boy, do I have a lot I would like to say, but since there is so much to respond to, I'll just respond to the promenent things.
to Tom who said "That's quite paradoxical. As a human, our entire concept of cause and effect presuppose a time frame in which any given event takes place. Think about it...for you to claim that something 'caused' or 'created' something else, you have to have accepted the premise that the cause came before the effect.
So, in order for your Creator to live up to his name, time must have existed. Humans simply cannot fathom a "beginning of time", because the term 'beginning' implied that there was time BEFORE that event, in which that certain event never took place. Again, causation presupposes both existence and time. Either god is subject to the the contraints of time and therefore is not omnipotent or he does not exist at all."
The word creator is english, for whatever is used to descibe as creator in the orignal language, but that is not what is important; the word is used to describe the act that we can only describe as creating, but does not mean it falls into the rules of cause and effect, and on top of that it does not matter because you are assuming that because God is outside of time that he can not effect things inside of time and use the cause and effect method to create as you put it.
what I am basically saying is: Think about how your arguement could be wrong before posting and it would save time from people like me to correct you.
To all the hateful Christians here and that will be here: LEAVE, you are not helping anyone or changing anyone's minds, you are just letting off anger, which makes other people angry, and as the Bible says: "...anger gives a foothold to the Devil"
To the author: Even as a Christian I find your list interresting and might suggest (if you haven't already) that you add the two from the NT that were killed by the Holy Spirit (which if you follow theology closely enough, you would know is apart of God).
To those that say that God was/is wrong to kill people for their sins: You can only see what they are now, not what they will be if they were allowed to live, but God can. People can not use that kind of logic because we can not see what would happen, we can only deal with what has already happened and judge what would be best (thus the death penalty). I believe the things that happened and were recorded in the OT were to show that sin is worng and why God would not handle things in any other way (and to show that He has control to do what he says), like teaching young kids early math, then He set what He wanted to happen, for people to see his love, but He had to set-up for it and make prophcies so people would believe (or at least not have an excuse when they did not believe), so then He could show the right way of living (which is what they could have lived like if they would just listen to God), just like then teaching higher level math after the basics.
To the one who said God lied when He told Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate the fruit:
If you haven't noticed, they aren't alive. God didn't say it would be instant death, but they did die (Adam died at 930, but he could have lived forever, I think he was punished for what he did, and same with Eve)
To the one who said you can't be saved by going to church: You're right, I am not saved by going to church, but by going to church I learned how I could be saved and later learned how I could help save others. I also learned that that doing good things will not save you. Your good actions do not overturn the punishment of death which is earned by sin (any sin), which is why Jesus died, to pay that price for us.
To whoever will try to say that it is not fair that God punishes any sin with death (or something similar): If you look around you find lots of Christians doing unchristian things. Why? Because they think that they are ok because Jesus will forgive them (I do know if people like that will get into heaven), but imagine if the cost of sin was less, we would have so much sin of all kinds everywhere. God does not judge sin on a case to case basis because if He did, we would begin to think that we could get away with little things, but not realize that little things add up to cause big problems. The punishment for sin is death because God takes sin seriously and because if he didn't take it so seriously, we wouldn't.
To all who disagree with things that can't be disproved easily by logic (I'm sure there is something in all that): I know you don't believe me, as I don't believe you, and I think that may be more because we all like to hold to what we believe already rather than listen to someone we disagree with (I try to not do that as much as possible), but I will also try to tear apart arguements I disagree with (which I've had pretty good success with). Still in all that I still believe the Bible and think that in the end most of the world is going to hell, and I believe there is a reason that God is justified in this (though it is one of the few things that excape my ablity to understand things), and I'm sure you still don't believe (or at least disagree or this is not written to you), and I don't expect that to change with just this (I expect that only God can make such lage changes).
To all: Well, thank you for listining as I rambled on and on.
I just noticed on the list that you put Herod, which is incorrect by your standards (and possible in truth). The Bible does not say if Herod was killed by God (or killed at all for that matter), it only says that an angel said that the ones that were trying to kill Jesus were dead (which may mean there were others who wanted Jesus dead, not that I guess you care about that piece of theology)
What about all the miscarriages? If he is behind everything isn’t he the most prolific abortionist ever?
To kill or not to kill; that is the question. Wether it is nobler to smite or not to do so. Decisions, decisions. Death's introduction in nature seems to be at risk of late. What if death were abolished?
How would the planet support all that life? Homo Sapiens knows that and thus subconciously supports the extension of death to all per the status quo. Is this not so? Man alive is as good as dead anyhowz we reason to ourselves. All the while the sinister little people wait in the wings to take our place. Let the buyer beware. Don't buy the lie. The lie that death is our friend. No! Death is our best friend and long may death reign. The culture of death is the culture of life in disguise. So embrace death rather then run from it in horror. Death is our friend. Amen!
One cannot be guilty if one does not exist.
Of course, people attributed all these killings/deaths to their "god" as an explanation for something no-one can easily accept (people dying).
In our time, the Holocaust could be connected to God - for punishing the killers of Christ. Hitler the Messias...
The obvious point is - don't take faith seriously, please.
It always amazes me the lengths people will go to to justify their denial of God's right to rule, as Creator of the Universe. One simple omission that justifies this article, and most of the comments made, is the existence of life after the cessation of biological function. We demand that God would cater for our claim to knowledge, and limit Himself to what we know about life and existence, and then either charge Him with crimes the meet our conditions of how life should be, or worse still, deny His very existence.
The same logic was applied when the people of Christ's day had him executed. The Jews charged him with blasphemy, for openly making claims that implied his divinity, when asked if he was their Messiah. The Romans, in spite of finding no fault in him, allowed him to replace a Jewish dissenter, who was scheduled for crucifixion.
God in His infinite wisdom has ordained the whole event, so that He could offer Himself as a replacement for the humanity that He loved. He even declared from the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." He was obliged to chose between two scenarios:
Firstly, keeping His word to allow ultimate death to occur, in mankind, as a result of them choosing to TAKE the knowledge of the mysteries of the universe, thereby rendering them responsible for their cruel deeds, rather than RECEIVE it as freely given, as they matured to a point of being able to handle it. And secondly, cast aside His integrity by failing to keep His word. Fortunately He chose a third option, which required an ultimate gesture of love, from Him, which would cost Him all. To minimise the ultimacy of His sacrifice, is to minimise the many deaths that have been attributed to Him, above, and to hold onto the severity of these deaths, in the face of Christ's death, burial and resurrection, demands that we review our assessment of what life is, considering the testimony of He who existed before our space/time domain began.
The Apostle exhorted us to consider the "kindness and severity of God". Christ himself chided the Pharisees for giving emphasis to external conformity to standards of morality, without giving heed to the "weightier matters of the law", which he defined as "justice, mercy, and faith". He further told us that God's testimony to the world, given through His Ruach HaKodesh (Spirit of Holiness), would be of SIN, because see Christ no more, RIGHTEOUSNESS, because Christ would ascend into heaven, in order to return to preside over the third element of the Ruach HaKodesh's testimony, JUDGEMENT because the Prince of the World stands condemned.
None of you were there when He laid the "foundation of the world" (be it a metaphor or not), and therefore are not qualified to bring accusation against Him. He owes you no explanation, no matter how much you redefine reality to demand that He gives one.
As one who was a criminal in God's sight, and have justly received His mercy, on the basis of Him paying the penalty of my crimes, I have no no need for God to explain Himself for these executions of wrath, no matter how disturbing they are to me. You see, it is quite simple: His ways are higher than my ways, just as His thoughts are higher than my thoughts. There are many things that He has explained to me, through the testimony of Scripture, which had previously appeared "unexplainable", and so He has proven Himself justified. He had no obligation to do so, and I didn't demand it, but He gave me His mind with which to comprehend mysteries, which are unfathomable, and often times, unutterable.
He offers this freely to all who will repent of their sin, and lean their full weight upon the mercy of God, as expressed by His only begotten Son's death, in our place, for our sins, and resurrection for our justification. Simply put, we did the crime, he did the time.
You may say, "Hey, where do you get off calling me a sinner?" When, haven't you lied? You probably think it's justifiable...except of course, when someone lies to you. Haven't you stolen? You say no, but what about coming home with stationery from work? Or sneaking into work late, and receiving a full days pay? Don't tell me you have never wished harm on another? Well morally, you might as well have done it. Ever disobeyed your parents, only to later find that they were only trying to protect you? (The amount of people who change that answer after they have their own kids...) Cheated on your partner? They say that it is worse to be exclusive sexually, with your wife, and withhold your companionship and respect, to give it to another. Been jealous?
Whether or not you agree with these moral statements, are irrelevant. The fact is that God has defined a moral standard in order for us to get along in this world. Our consciences testify to its truth, unless it has become seared by repeated violation. And on top of this, he has further defined an importance to refuse another equal standing with Him, to never try to reduce Him to something which we can form with our own imagination, to respect His personality, as defined by His Name, and to acknowledge Him as one who would prefer one day over the other six.
Consider these last few to be a divine equivalent to "impersonating a police officer", and "resisting arrest". Law abiding citizens would acknowledge the need of acknowledging our law enforcers, and yet often we deny the Law Giver the same respect.
You will probably dismiss this as irrelevant, and most likely ridicule the notion, but there can be no remission of sin, apart from His shedding of blood. You can deny it, if you like, and continue to demand He limit Himself to your definition of reality, but fact is His definition is based on knowledge, where yours is based of pure speculation. If you read this to the end, thank you for your time. :)
cjakforest@hotmail.com
Okay, okay, I think I get it.
God makes the rules. We don't always have the mental or spiritual capacity to understand or accept it. But sometimes he feels like explaining it to us, and at that point we do have the capacity to understand. Either way, he has the right to beat you like a bad child if you don't obey.
Merciful God:
God: Don't eat candy corn.
You: Why?
God: 'Cuz I said so. You won't ever understand.
You: Ah, crap, I already ate like three of 'em. Sorry.
God: Uh, okay, as long as you're sorry... Just don't do it again.
You: Praise the Lord!
Officer God:
God: Don't get mad at people.
You: Huh? How can I help that?
God: You can't. But it's still a crime punishable by...horrible things.
You: Ah, crap. That guy down the street kicked my dog, so...I did get kind of...
God: *electrocutes you then throws you in a burning pit*
Ha I'm just having fun here. Nobody's gonna win.
Read Lee Strobel's A Case for Faith. Thats all I have to say.....
Hello,
For some reason you seem to be forgetting the people God SAVED by killing his OWN SON at the cross of Golgotha.
Greetings,
Dinand Mentink
I can’t possibly understand how the people writing on this blog can attempt to justify the horrendous and abhorrent acts that God performs in the Bible, by arguing that ‘God is God, so whatever he does is justified’ (SoldierUnderCommand says: He is the ultimate standard for what is just and unjust. He can kill who He pleases and is righteous in doing it, for example)
How can you possibly buy into this? God’s actions in the Bible are absolutely incompatible with our moral faculties. The Bible says that God will send the vast majority of human beings to hell “the place of eternal torment with weeping and gnashing of teeth” and that people sent there shall be “tormented with fire and brimstone . . . for ever and ever”
We know that torturing people is immoral! Certainly you would not think we should gather all the earth’s homosexuals, unbelievers, and other ‘sinners’ together and torture them until they die. This is ludicrous! It is absolutely incompatible with our human faculty of morality; our sense of empathy and sympathy for other human beings. Look at the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; almost all contemporary societies endorse the idea that all human beings are entitled to certain universal and inalienable rights. This includes the belief humans should not be subjected to torture.
If the absolute source of morality is whatever God commands, no matter how abhorrent, than why would God have endowed human beings with a moral faculty that goes completely against what He commands?
Anonymous said...
Interesting that the only two deaths in the New Testament (After Christ has atoned for human sin) Are "ghosts" given up by the individual due to their actions...
Hmmmm. Me things that Anonymous forgot to read Revelations. Jesus promises to come back and KILL EM ALL!
This is excellent. How did you acquire the numbers for the armies, cities, etc?
Also, this is just recognizing the "recordings" of God related deaths in the Bible. For all those that say God does work in mysterious ways when people die, would that not mean that God had a hand in that too?
I dont think there is a fathomable numeric amount when talking about death and killing on the grand scale of life.
wow how did u come up with this number..any way cool blog man check. im goin to link you to my blog ..can u link to mind also ur blog is great
Hey I looked at the graph! I don't need to read the Bible or try to understand it. You've already digested it for me. I knew that Christians were idiots who'd believe anything...
Wait a minute. Jehovah commanded the Jews to "love the foreigner among you as your own self..."
to "divide your bread with the hungry, And bring the homeless poor into your home, to cover him". The instructions of a homocidal maniac? So what's going on here?
God is 100% just AND 100% merciful. (Not 50:50!) His mercy is freely available to those who turn to it, and his justice (read vengeance if you like) is freely available to those who refuse his mercy (hence the killings). He's not changing the rules to suit us, but gave clear instructions and he's left every person with the choice.
And what about the innocents? God is 100% just so you don't need to worry - the Bible clearly explains what happens to those who are innocent when they die. There are two kinds of death in the Bible: death of the body, and eternal death. If you don't understand the priority God places on the human soul you will never understand the Bible.
Interesting debate.
The bible is of course an ancient document, and it is important to realise the ancient mindset was very different to ours today.
Scholars would argue that people in the ancient Near East would describe ANY death as an "act of God." If someone dies young, then they must have done something bad. The book of Job in the biblical canon is interesting in that it actually argues against this type of logic. People were clearly trying to come to terms with why people die, and of course the early Christians, following the death of Jesus, took on a different position again.
The causes of death in the bible can of course generally be explained naturalistically - famine, war, disease etc. But I guess if you assume the ancient Near Eastern mindset, then God has actually killed billions, not millions of people.
Your main verse is ironic that same angel is talking about people like you who don't want to believe and forget their truths.
Truths that were never strongly grounded, beliefs that were never firmly placed.
Some points to ponder:
God operates outside of the constraints of time. Among all the things in the vast universe, man is his most cherished creation. God gave man dominion over all of the rest of creation on earth. He created us with a free will to either accept him or reject him, and he has always respected our freedom to make this choice. For all eternity, God's love for us has remained constant and unchanging. Think about it. Any change requires the element of time, and God does not operate in time. His plan for us is eternal, and not confined to a mere 100 years or so. His thoughts and plans are way beyond our understanding! God wants all of us to love him and accept his blessings, and his love for us remains constant and unchanging even during times when we reject him. He continues to love us and waits patiently for us to come to him - respecting our free will. He will never force himself upon us! Could any of us even begin to demonstrate such patience and love? Open the door and allow your heavenly Father into your heart and mind. Ask to see, hear and understand, and he will begin to reveal himself to you. Peace!
To remember how to brush your teeth is also very important!The deal is in concentration, you concentrate on whiter teeth while brushing them, you concentrate on your genius ideas while thinking about genius ideas! Do not mix that!
No, No...you have it all wrong. The true number is incalculable. Listen, if God saved thousands during Katrina and the Asia Tsunami then one must conclude that He killed the rest.
The last day of 2007.. and I recieved the first comment of the day for the last part of the year in.
Welcome God to 2008, a year of waning support, what then shall you do? Obama and Clinton seem to have more caucuses than you.
Will you go the way of Mt. Olympus or the belief of the Norse Gods?
Will your support choose to become armed and make believers by force?
Will you choose your tribe- muslims, christians or jews for aren't you really the same for each one?
Who really is the trickster in the Bible many disciples speak of?
As for your former once beautiful angel of Light, Lucifer, I feel very sorry for him (or her) to. All these bad things being attributed to him as you.
Perhaps with these realizations in here we will know the true motivation of death and that is in man itself, not some conjured diety of GOD, Allah, god, or gods.
You the Christian ignorant that wake up everyday and say God is in everybody. Do you suppose that implies to the Innuit that live in a world untouched by your divine beliefs until we introduced them the sins of our world by the guise of Christian missions? Oh hmm let us not forget that your missions fail to reach everybody, if they happen to die before they know your God its unfortunately to late for them.
You the extremist muslims who tout 72 virgins as a reward for being a martyr. More you are nothing but 72 pieces of flesh and more when you self pity lets you moronically except a strapped explosive vest from some Imam who brainwashes you into your belief of God- Allah.
You the Isrealite who tout yourself as the chosen and the saved. A people who's devout irostracy to the lineages of Abraham make you think you are better than anyone else. Yet you deny entry to your country by Black Jewish Ethiopians who have more direct lineage to the tribe of Abraham than your Blond haired blue eyed Starbucks loving jewish families.
I believe in a meaning before and a meaning after. It is MY FAITH in knowing you as the halls of Valhalla you will become just another book of myths in time to come.
Tetra Grammaton is our way.
The people that say that God created us, so has right over our life (and death) are wrong.
By creating something living, you have responsibilty. If I was to save your life, that doesn't justify me stabbing you in the back (literally) a few years later.
If you create something though, you are not just injustified to ill-treat them. You have responsibility over their life. The comparison for a parent is true. As a father has a responsibility to look after his children, as they are his creation, a Father has a responsibility to look after His children, as they are His creation.
Except that... if you were to create a world that runs according to LAWS (eg the law of gravity for one) and beings that have CHOICE, you can't always protect them from harm without violating the law or the power of choice you gave them.
ok....so I read the names and the number of deaths. But what does this proof? How many people have been killed by the hand of man? That number exceeds the numbers listed above.
So if God is evil because he killed all those people then we are worse because we have killed millions more than he has. Plus the fact that he just took their life after he had warned them. We just kill, rape, physically and emotionally abuse each other, lie, steel, cheat....and the list goes on.
I didn't read down through all of the 110 or so comments, so maybe someone caught this, but there is a tale somewhere in the old testament about a group of children, who taunted an old man for being bald, were attacked and killed by a group of "she bears" sent by god. I bet that showed those little shits!
What about when god killed himself (when he was Jesus). It was all part of HIS plan right? Isn't suicide condemned by Christianity???
"What about when god killed himself (when he was Jesus)... Isn't suicide condemned by Christianity?"
More scintillatingly brilliant logic...
Actually Cher - if you really thought about it (which I suspect is NOT likely) crucifixion is one of the only forms of death that's impossible to inflict on yourself.
In any case - if a man throws himself in front of a car to save the life of his daughter, and dies, but her life is saved, who would call that suicide? Noone - most people would marvel at the love shown by the father.
The Bible teaches that is pretty much what Jesus did. That God in Jesus paid the penalty (death) for Cher's (and all his sons' and daughters') sin. Now, you Cher, are FREE to accept the forgiveness offered, to reject it, or to joke about it.
I would add unknown thousands in Sodom and Gomorrah (actually five cities) and of course, the Flood, where only eight people survived.
I think it would be fair to say that we all die at some point, the how and why is the most interesting.
The question is: IS THERE ANY GOD?? OR SATAN?
Very interesting site. I used to be religious but the terrorism in the Old Testament turned me off. Then I get into the New Testament as a reformed Catholic and found much hypocrisy and inconsistency. Perhaps the biggest problem for me was the last supper in Luke. Here's a guy, not an apostle describing the event, and he wasn't even there. Anyway I have no animosity toward religious people. It wasn't my bag, and I've never been happier.
Who is that judges God or how he deals with HIS people. And to refer to "Samson's GOD-assisted act of terroism" on what basis do you lay that you could catagorize that as Terroism. Yes, i see he avenged himself, but that is NOT terroism. Is it Right no, but God did not assist him, and it certainly was not Terroism.
How dare you judge the God who created you,
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27
And let us not remember who will be judged on YOUR death.
25 Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
Genesis 18:25
Now where does it say that any of the people he killed were rightious enough to be kept alive? And tell me how is it that you lay the "wicked" label on the Very same person that could take you right back to the thing before he created you, NOTHING?
How do you call someone unrightious when he killed His own son to Save You and me from the hands of evil? If you were asked to do the same, I KNOW you would be too cowardly to do it. tell me, how is it remotely rightious to label GOD unrightious when none of us even deserve to be breathing.
You count how many God has killed, But if you were to count you own wrongdoing, It would be 10 times more. So tell me, Who is more wicked, the person who kills men and women whom have diobeyed and sinned against him, or the man whom cannot even go one day without sinning and yet still judges the rightious?
I would argue that you missed the book of Job. Whilst, technically, other people did the killing, god should certainly be tried for incitement to violence, and wilful neglect.
I always thought the number was about 300,000... but 2 million? God damn! (Ironic, eh?)
If you're truly interested in whether a supposed "God of Love" can really exist and whether He really killed all those people spoken of in the Bible I suggest you visit the following website:
www.canagodoflovereallyexist.blogspot.com
Bruce, if you overlook the fact that God may have allowed man free will to choose, your logic will be flawed...
If you engage that possibility you not only have to answer the question "is God a God of love" but "is God a God of justice"? In other words - if God gave man free will - does He care how man chooses and will he act at some point to reward the good and punish the evil. Is He just?
What if God IS a God of love AND a God of justice?
Well then, you have to rethink your logic, and re-read Genesis. Then, the life and sacrifice of Jesus makes absolutely perfect, logical sense.
Your question about God's nature: "if God wants us to know that He exists, why hasn’t He shown Himself to us, so that there is no doubt in our minds of His existence?" was plainly and adequately answered once and for all by Jesus Christ: "You will find me when you seek Me with all your heart." For some reason God does not allow himself to be found by the proud self-satisfied observer, but by the humble SEEKER.
"Why hasn’t He shown Himself to us?" Well, hasn't he??? History records a man, who claimed to be God, whose body has not been produced (even by his enemies), whose 10 closest friends (apart from John) were tortured and killed rather than deny their claim of his divinity. The nature and manner of this man was prophesied many times centuries before. In Daniel 9 the EXACT date of the coming of this God-man was declared(to the day - if you study it), hundreds of years before. These facts are undeniable-if you study them. But you have to be a humble seeker.
If God is a God of love He wouldn't limit himself to being found by the intelligent only. Of course He would different criteria - humility and faith. Jesus said: "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from wise and intelligent people and have revealed them to infants."
its interesting to note that, for an original post that only stated the number of people that have been killed by god in the bible, there are a huge number of complaints seeking to point out the number of people saved and helped by god and the number of people that have claimed that his killings were justified or not. When i read the bit at the top i just read a bit of factual information about the people god killed according to te bible. If colating these "facts" into a single page is some kind of blasphemy or whatever crime he has commited by pointing it out then surely, the person who originally put together the bible recounting all of these facts is just as deserved of punishment as poor old steve wells whom meny of you have cast to damnation.
what exactly is his crime?
the pesky ethics...
it could be argued that christians have killed billions of people, either directly or indirectly, yet christians believe that this is OK under the "loving" God.
if you truly, fully loved someone, and suddenly killed them, is this true love?
you can add 6,602,224,175 as a theoretical past-based metric on how much people God, through his people, killed since the birth of His only son, who He gave because he loved the world so much that he did not want people sinning. (to add to that, Jesus' murder by the Romans through God ... justified? I think not)
is it ethical to mass murder billions upon trillions of people for your own religious gratification? (this includes Jesus!)
How many has God made?
How many did Satan kill in the bible?
Less probably?
I am a christian(jus wanted to say that upfront)...Sadly death on earth means nothing because all of us, those who know GOD and those who dont are going to live forever. Our heart toward GOD on earth determines whether we will spend forever with him or with satan. It really is our choice. Now the question is would it be better for GOD to have allowed those people to live and cause even more corruption in the world, when he knew that they were going to hell? Believe me neither I nor GOD is happy about people going to hell but when people make that decision they take it out of GOD's hands because he gave us a free will. I'm writing this because GOD wants you to know that HE is not evil and HE doesn't hate us but HE hates the things we consume ourselves with (sin). GOD wants anyone who is willing to hear HIM to know that through JESUS CHRIST we dont have to be associated with our sin anymore. Ask Jesus to come into your life and find out what that actually means. Please, please don't continue to hate GOD when HE truly loves you so much. If you dont believe me then ask GOD to prove HIMself to you and be open to HIS reply. Please.
Patricia: "GOD wants you to know that HE is not evil"
Have you read these verses in the bible?
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Joshua 23:15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things.
Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit
1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
2 Samuel 12:11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house
1 Kings 9:9 ...therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.
1 Kings 14:10 Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam.
2 Kings 6:33 ...Behold, this evil is of the LORD;
2 Kings 21:12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.
2 Kings 22:16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place
Nehemiah 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city?
Jeremiah 4:6 Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.
Jeremiah 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people
If these texts are NOT EVIL, I dunno what it is. Either you believe your bible as true or not.
Thanks for responding Rey, I have to admit I'd been kinda waiting around for someone to respond. Anyway, yes I had already read some of those scriptures you posted and thanks to your post I've now read the others and was forced to do some studying. As you may know the old testament of the bible was originally written in Hebrew. The hebrew word used for evil in every one of those scriptures you listed is ra' which means adversity, affliction, or calamity. While the word used in describing the evil of men is ra'a' which means to spoil or to make good for nothing. This difference is important because when the bible talks about GOD sending evil it is describing punishments that he sends because of the true evil of men. Another thing you must realize is that GOD hated to do this. I challenge you to go to each of those scriptures you listed and perhaps read on beyond the initial verse. If you do you will always encounter GOD's mercy. You will always find HIM begging and pleading with the people to repent and return to HIM. You will always find HIM offering a way out. Now you may be asking why GOD has to punish people for their evil. Well in the beginning we were made without sin because we were made in the image of GOD but satan (who had been cast out of heaven because he hated GOD)decieved us causing to believe GOD to be a liar. When we first betrayed GOD by believing satan we became perverted and were no longer in GOD's image. GOD is perfect and when HE comes in contact with sin HE MUST destroy it. This should never have been a problem because we should never have sinned but when we did the bible says the we were "clothed in iniquity". So, for a long time when GOD saw us all HE could see was our clothing of sin and in order to protect us from destruction he had us offer sacrifices. Something had to be killed because GOD told the first people in Genesis, before they sinned, that the price of sin is death. So sadly, if we were to live the animals had to die and we had to obey the laws that GOD sent to us. Now GOD knew all along that this system was not going to work out for the long term because although the people repented they continued to sin. In order to not be forced to literally kill everyone GOD found a way to make a permenant sacrifice. The price of sin was still death and GOD himself would have to die in order to pay for the sins of everyone. So GOD came in the flesh (John 1) and "became sin" (Isaiah 53:6, John 1:29, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 john 3:5)and then punished Himself for our sins. HE is the only one who had the authority or power to take all of our blame and give us the right to be in HIS presence again without being completely perfect. Do you know that the Bible says in Isaiah 53:10 that it pleased GOD to crush JESUS on the cross. Now if you just take this verse in run with it then GOD seems like some kind of sicko but if you continue and read the following verses you will find that GOD did not like seeing JESUS suffer but HE was pleased with what HE knew would come after.GOD knew that by JESUS' suffering so many of HIS other children would be saved. So I urge you to always read beyond the surface and don't seek to view GOD in a certain light. If you open your mind and most importantly your heart you will be pleasantly surprised to find a GOD of love and righteous judgment.
:)
Oh my dear Patricia. When will folks like you learn you can't use the holy book to prove itself. Speaking of opening one's mind, if you could only step outside the box...
To Anonymous who wrote, God's existence is proven by the very fact that people want to try to disprove his existence.
This is incorrect. The burden to prove that God exists falls on you, me saying it does not exist does not mean that it does.
For example, if I say that I have the cure to cancer, that is great. However when asked to prove it, and I can't, I don't have it. Saying I have the cure to cancer and not being able to prove it doesn't mean that one exists.
I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your head and your heart. And what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man - or not.
Now that's what I would call a divine sin
You guys are stupid. If GOD is an all mighty being, onimpotent and all knowing, don't we sound retarded questioning the very thing that created us in the first place? We have a hard enough time trying to figure what the hell our purpose is, let alone what and why GOD did what he did in the bible. To say GOD is too complicated, for us to understand, is an understatement. At the very least, we could be the result of boredom of a supreme-being. Most of the people reading this death toll are also uneducated to the fact that GODs agenda and temperament was different in the old testament compared to what it is today thanks to his son dieing for our sins. If you take a toy away from a young child it will cry. And make no mistake, the pain it feels from the deprivation of something it wants is real. But as an adult I can conclude that my judgment trumps that of a child in spades and would not be or shouldn't be considered evil if I did not show sympathy. God is that adult and compared to him we have the intellect of that child.
Re this comment:
"You can only see what they are now, not what they will be if they were allowed to live, but God can. People can not use that kind of logic because we can not see what would happen, we can only deal with what has already happened and judge what would be best (thus the death penalty)."
Now that is exactly why non-god-believers like myself are against the death penalty (and I don't even have the backup of thinking that if I don't kill him, at least god will set things right on some judgement day). We don't know the future. The guy you murder in return for his murders may save your life one day. May discover the cure for cancer. May start the equivalent of the underground railroad in the future when it is needed. Maybe the person they murdered would have been a murdering tyrant in the future, so like your bloodthirsty but just and benevolent god, was an instrument to stop future suffering. Or simply, may be discovered to be falsely convicted, which does happen more than one likes to think.
So maybe y'all "God will punish you" believers might like to be so pro-life as you think you are, and perhaps stick to confining convicted criminals instead of taking their lives, which is um, a sin according to your own ten commandments.
And for all the idiots who say that the 10 commandments brought morality: the Code of Hammurabi was a moral and legal code written up eons before Moses.
And frankly, my 3 yr old son has never heard of your god or your 10 commandments, and has caring, empathy, generosity, affection, and an understanding of right and wrong. Sheesh.
how about context? why did they die? how about read what takes place in the story and see there is some sort of warning before any deaths happen?
obviously, we all know the agenda of the person who wrote this...
I had just flicked through the first five books of the Old Testament and was interested to see if I could find a number for those killed. Google led me here. Thanks for the good work and of course - as you point out - there are many groups killed who are not numbered. I can`t read all the comments but it is hilarious that people justify these mythical murders and call themself "Christian" rather than believers in an angry, jealous, murderous magical man.
Thanks again.
Considering that over 100 billion people have ever been born, this is an insignificantly small amount
How many did satan kill in the bible?
First lets get a few things straight, I am Christian, Its MY belief, I will not begrudge anyone of THEIR belief, I would love it if you all believed, but I wont hate you if you do not.
To the one who said:
"You will rightfully burn in the realm of nothingess forever when you die you silly fool;"
The question I have to ask you is: "FOR WHAT?"
Exactly what wrong has Mister Wells done in posting this? He has made a compilation of facts freely found in the Bible, So its now a sin to read the bible? Or to make an observation?
I am not going to touch the issue of whether the killing is right or wrong with a 2,391,421 foot poll, but I am going to say Religious Nuts like you are no different from the Muslim Extremist you criticize the only difference is that you haven't worked up the frenzy needed to blow yourself up.
PS: (Matthew 5:22) - "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."
Great move, numb nuts.
To Mister Wells: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it.
A christian's answer to any question that questions God's Logic is "FAITH". Blind faith is the same as being brain washed. If you believe in God then you have to agree that the same God who slaughtered so many innocent people also gave you a power of choice and the ability to think. Use it. I just can't figure out who thinking people can say "AMEN" to stories of genocide, child abuse, and ideological racism.
Hitler killed millions in the name of religion and a pure race, and he believed that the Germans were the chosen people descending from God. What's the difference between what he did and what the Israelites did so many cities and people in the name of God.
Quick question: Why do people always capitalize "he" when talking about God?
Anyway, it's still fun to see how many people can be killed in by just one fictional character.
Justin,
"Why do people always capitalize "he" when talking about God?"
Because it's supposed to show how much you respect and fear him.
If you don't capitalize "he", he'll kill you.
All these lil rules is why he has killed soooo many :) haha
"A christian's answer to any question that questions God's Logic is "FAITH". Blind faith is the same as being brain washed. If you believe in God then you have to agree that the same God who slaughtered so many innocent people..." WHO ARE YOU? God CREATED YOU. HE IS GOD. No one is innocent. we are all sinners. Come on im 14 and i get it! And "Anyway, it's still fun to see how many people can be killed in by just one fictional character.???????" No, its funny to see how many people were created without him!!! GOD EXISTS, IF HE DOSENT THEN WHERE DID WE COME FROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? Yes God killed people. Why? IDK. He Created us, so who are WE to question HIM?
John 1:3-5
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Think about it
Praise be to God
You can't be a sinner if you don't accept the idea of sin. People are people, we aren't perfect.We're just being us. Doing "wrong" no matter how severe, is being human. It's what humans do, just like all life on earth. I can't hate myself for being myself, I CANT BE ANYTHING BUT MYSELF. How is that my fault? I'm just a dog chasing cars.
It doesn't really make sense to talk about god killing and the justification of it - even if you pretend he's not fictional - but it is still interesting to see WHY this god kills all these people (as can be seen from the links).
A lot of the victims are just unfortunate or rather random - for instance the 70.000+ killed following David's census. In this story god first incites David to number the people, then for that sin ends up killing, not David of course, but 70.000 of the people so unfortunate to have been counted. There's also not much reasonable justification by modern human standards in the story of the man who gets eaten by a lion for refusing to smite a prophet - who asks for it himself claiming to be speaking in the words of god - or in the one with the bears killing some children mocking a prophet.
Generally the things you get killed for, or should be killed for, according to the Bible are really quite ridiculous.
Now religious people will come up with all sorts of explenations and reasonings and justifications for these killings, or try to dismiss them as pre-Jesus (although of course Jesus also strongly advocates the laws of Moses), in order to somehow make the Bible morally "right" in a world that has moved a long way ahead since it was written. And fortunately so: in the end the important thing is that no sane person would try to follow the example of god or his prophets or find his or hers moral beliefs in the actual words of the Bible.
This is really good!
And I think it's silly to talk about the reasons, we are human beings and we makes mistakes. Killing children for making fun of someone's bald head? That's senseless.
One thing god didn't invent, judging by looking at this page:
THE FLAME WAR!!
Go Trolls! Go Trolls!!
I LOVE this post and the comments! I stumbled upon it because, recently, it had come to my mind that maybe God (NOT MAN!!!!) needs to do us a favor and KILL Obama, Pelosi, and Reid, and some other evil world leaders. These people are so evil and are doing such damage to our country/world. It seems they are unstoppable. Hence, my thought was, "hey, God HAS killed people in the past; why not now?" So, to research my thought, I decided to google if anyone had researched how many people God had killed. Wallah, someone had already done the research! Thank you!
Interesting, though, that the one who did the research did so to prove that God is "questionable" ... but I wanted the research because I wanted to prove that a GOOD God does, in fact, remove evil from our earth. (One of the benefits being to "clean up our world" and give Godly people a chance to continue to survive). Let's be honest, given no restraints and no negative repercussions, "good", God-hating people would have wiped out all of us Christians a long time ago.
I consider myself a devout Christian. I pray HARD for the salvation of unbelievers (including the evil American 'trinity') as I believe an eternity in an indescribable hell awaits them. I don't want any to suffer that! However, if one hardens one's heart, and worse, passionately works towards evil, eventually God will "honor" one's desire and judge that person. (Hebrews 9:27) My thought is, since God knows our end, (Obama's, et.al.), why not give some of these particularly evil people their eternity right now?
Some of the comments that have been posted are SO illogical, really, nothing more than biased opinion-drivel, that it's too much work to even bother trying to counter them. I mean, people, you have to WANT to know the truth!
I would suggest that the skeptics, (all, really), check out some lectures by the esteemed modern day theologian/apologist/logician Dr. R.C. Sproul. Accent on LOGICIAN! ( www.Ligonier.org ) Dr. Sproul is an extremely intelligent, educated man, a scholar in the fullest sense of the word, but he teaches in a way that even the simple can understand. He is NOT GIVEN to histrionics or hysteria. And he does NOT resort to "circular arguments" from the Bible to prove his points. Of course, he may illustrate from the Bible or help clarify some teaching of the Bible but he also illustrates and clarifies the teachings of great thinkers in history and of current note. He is gentle, thoughtful, and he will make YOU think. Check him out! (I highly recommend his cd's "Creation or Chaos", and "A Shattered Image".) I think even you skeptics will enjoy listening to Dr. Sproul, indeed, even find him compelling!
God Doesn't believe in atheists, therefore atheists Do not exist.
Romans 1:18
"18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. "
I don't even know where to start! I LOVE the non-believers who are too moral to be religious. I appreciate all the kind and reasonable believers as well.
For those religious people who are especially twisted in their words, my heart sinks. What kind of morality do you have when you are so "certain" that the Mass Murderer is not as bad as the Ordinary "Sinner" who simply complains about it. Do you even HEAR yourself?! If I even believed in him, I would be God-"fearing" for sure! .... but my levels of praise and adoration would fall flat. I wouldn't be able to help it. It's just too hard on my internal moral compass that KNOWS what's good deep within.
How about the bubonic plagues of the middle ages ? They were also attributed to God by priests of that time. And the bible specifically teaches that the plagues are the work of the Lord. So it seams reasonable to add them too on the "casualties" list, no ? Just like the floods, tsunamies,hurricanes and other callamities. How about AIDS ? Isn't it too the work of God ? Because I know humans didn't create AIDS, so that means God is responsible for the billions that have died from AIDS, and any other disease for that matter. That said, GOD is the ultimate "Chemical ALI". By the way, doesn't that mean we should hang God ?? No, of course not, it means we should worship him, because otherwise he sends our asses to hell. Which leads us to the following question: if Chemical Ali was omnipotent, would we venerate him too ?
The thrust of the original research is how many has God killed ... that the Bible itself specifically designates ... hence, the Bubonic plague, AIDS, et. al., while they MAY have come directly from God's hand (doubtful) are nevertheless NOT stated as such in the Bible. These diseases DID come from violating God's health and moral standards that were clearly laid out in the Bible. (Read book: None of These Diseases by S. I. McMillen, M.D. & David E. Stern, M.D. Great book!) Thus, these diseases are natural results of man's efforts at self-destruction, not supernatural.
I hesitate to respond to "Chemical Ali" type questions as they, (a) don't seem sincere or (b) are sacrilegious. We worship God because He is self-existent (btw, self-existence is the ONLY logical explanation that does NOT violate the "Laws of Non-Contradiction") and because He is our Creator. Our finite minds can NEVER fully understand an INFINITE BEING. (Logical ... and ... Biblical!) Even in heaven we will not fully know God ... if we did we would be God!!! We WILL fully know Him in the capacity that He has given us to know Him. (Big difference!)
Our Creator is HOLY! He NEVER violates His holiness. (Logical ... and ... Biblical!) Thus, one had better Reverence HIM! (Logical ... and ... Biblical!) Be VERY careful at treating God Almighty in a spurious, non-sincere manner. He is patient but He will also judge. Sometimes I wish He would judge evil right now! But I REALLY am thankful that He does everything according to His perfect will. Hallelujah!
I would suggest that all check out some lectures by the esteemed modern day theologian/apologist/logician Dr. R.C. Sproul. Accent on LOGICIAN! (It's pathetic how unlogical so many think!!!)
( www.Ligonier.org )
Dr. Sproul is an extremely intelligent, educated man, a scholar in the fullest sense of the word, but he teaches in a way that even the simple can understand. He is NOT GIVEN to histrionics or hysteria. And he does NOT resort to "circular arguments" from the Bible to prove his points. Of course, he may illustrate from the Bible or help clarify some teaching of the Bible but he also illustrates and clarifies the teachings of great thinkers in history and of current note. He is gentle, thoughtful, and he will make YOU think. Check him out! (I highly recommend his cd's "Creation or Chaos", and "A Shattered Image".) I think even skeptics will enjoy listening to Dr. Sproul, indeed, find him compelling!
Thanks for your research. Though it's by no means authoritative or exhaustive, I added it to my Bible resources. I might have missed it due to the late hour and my weary eyes, but it looks like you missed the biggest death of all... God's Son Jesus. It pales in comparison and it is the means by which life is truly worth living.
The reason god kills so many innocent people, including babies in the womb, he condones selling your daughter as a sex slave as long as she pleases the man, he condones slamming babies heads against rocks, ect, ect, the list goes on and on, if there really was a god, he would not be as evil as this man is. Thats because there is no god. We are all brought up to believe from the time we can speak that there is a god, we are brainwashed by the people we look up to the most. Our parents first, then they send us to church where we study the bible, and we see all around us believe the same thing so then it must be true!!
The if you read the bible of Alah, buddism, muslim, satanic, or any other, you also realize that you would swear to god you were reading our bible. just as a crook created mormanism which many of the things can be disproved, there are still millions of people now that believe in it. That is how EASY it is to brain wash people. Its no different then the people who believed in the Greek gods. Back when the bible was written this time around by men we also believed that the world was flat, and there was no science. If any of you were all born and raised in Saudi Arabia, you would all be muslims!
But this does not include, "in the name of" god. In all religions and all wars gods have killed more than any other cause. Period. Want yes WW 1-2 were over religion. god is the greatest mass murder of all time. Period. And don't forget new laws ie 'hate crimes.'
Thanks
Kerry
It is so easy to be armchair "gods." Judging God, as though - If I were God this is what I would do. I wouldn't have killed this group or that group because they are not sooo bad. I wouldn't come up with a plan to kill my Son so the world could be saved- I would have done it so much better. The question is not "how many did God kill, but how many did he save? Do you have perfect knowledge of the Almighty, Do you know the mind of the Lord? I know I sound like Job when I say this but it is impossible to judge God based on our limited minds and limited knowledge of the consequences of our own actions let alone God's. Read a few books by Dutch Reformed teacher Brakel about the ineffable, omniscient, unknowable God who is our saviour. Who knows how many people God has saved throughout the ages, how many have been saved from even worse consequences. When time ends for us maybe we will have more knowledge but I think God only has perfect knowledge of the consequences of His actions. All we can do is judge Him based on our limited perspective and say - If I were God I would or wouldn't do it that way. If you think you can judge God, watch out, His ways are perfect and only He knows everything.
What an interesting question !!! I was a little girl when I rode the Bible, and it was so shocking all these wars and murderers. The worst way was to kill saying it is for the name of God !!! Today,we see again this . So sad !
Thank you to have denounced this crime against humanity.
elohaelena raelian
Chantal,
If you haven't read the Bible since you were a little girl - maybe it's time... if you read the beginning (and the end) you'll find God's heart and plan for His beloved creation. In the middle you'll find the uncensored consequences of man's choice(s) - good and bad - not through the westernised rose-tinted spectacles of TV-land (where consequences are hidden), but in truth - as the world actually is - where choices can literally lead to life or death.
In fact, you have a choice, right now, to reject the Bible based on your reading of a blog, or to look deeper into its truth and work it out for yourself. I recommend you look a little deeper. But it's up to you.
The God Murders by Gary Devaney site should be linked to here.
The God Murders by Gary DeVaney should be linked to here.
Jesus is God with out his glory. The established churches filled minds with only demonic lies perverting Gods word.
MonkeyLover, do not judge lest ye be judged. All of humanity is on death row because they die,and God in spirit does not die. That means God is innocent of all charges.
Jesus who is God is the resurrection,and the life. Not good for you to speak against the only one who can give you eternal joy.
Brucker: Killing is killing,and way back in the beginning God made it clear that Satan is the murderer. When humans reject God God can do nothing to protect those that do not want to be protected.
John 8:44:King James Bible
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Therefore whoever accuses God of being a killer has the devil speaking through them,and should is Christs risen name rebuke the devil telling him to get behind you.
Can you boast yourselves above the creator God? If whoever cannot boast himself above God or even be equal to him it would not be wise to speak against him. God is the giver of life. It Would be to your befit to not be against him, agreed?
Brucker: Killing is killing,and way back in the beginning God made it clear that Satan is the murderer. When humans reject God God can do nothing to protect those that do not want to be protected.
John 8:44:King James Bible
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Therefore whoever accuses God of being a killer has the devil speaking through them, and should in Christs risen name rebuke the devil telling him to get behind you.
50 million? can we see the source for that stat please?
Doesn't God kill all of us sooner or later?
Shouldn't that be more upsetting than those mentioned in the Bible?
Doesn't God kill everyone sooner or later?
Why are you upset only about those mentioned in the Bible?
When God comes back in glory all things that die will be consumed in the light of his glory. Even the stars will dissolve when he comes back in glory rolling the heavens apart like a scroll. Those that have his spirit in them will pass from death unto life in a twinkling of an eye. The ones who want to give fire to whoever will also perish in Gods light as if it was fire consuming humans that boast in their assumed good works,and at that time perish, But the ones that do good even as Jesus does good in a meek way will not boast, And we will Know Jesus,and Jesus will know us saving us. No one in Gods glorified presence will boast in anything they have done. It will be Jesus in them doing the good works in whoever being married to their soul being one with Jesus who is Lord.
Then there will be a second resurrection at the end of a thousand years with Satan mulling about what he has done with no one to do his evil deeds on anyone through a human, and Satan will be loosed for a season, and it will be then Satan will convince the Fallen Angels, and whatever human that is raised for the last time will attempt to take the city that is before their eyes,and the light of God will consume them because all of them would be evil not able to stand in his presence.
according to michael tsarion, the god of the old testament was amen-ra. that makes a whole lot more sense than it being the real God.
This question arises out of a pre-adolescent view of God. It is deistic. The bible asserts that God kills everyone and everything (Deu 32:39; 1Sa 2:6; 2Ki 5:7; 5:18; Psa 68:20. Not even a bird falls to the ground (dead) apart from God's will (Matt 10:29).
The true Christian's belief is that God alone holds the issues of life and death (Job 1:21; 2:10). And we are quite OK with that.
So, your accounting is quite a bit low. All men, all women, all babies, all animals, all plants that have died, died so in the purpose and providence of God.
The question you need to answer is: Is God just and righteous to act as He does? (We have settled this matter in our own minds.)
What say you Mr. Prosecutor? What charges do you bring before the court?
(Bear in mind that God is the Judge also.)
Interesting point, but I think its not in perspective to how many purple exist today. 6 billion plus.... So, of course, If you adjust for two thousands yrars again. Your probably still at a world population of 200 million people that existed AND ever existed up to jesus. So 25million of 200 is roughly 13%... So through out history God "removed" ur estimated 25mil.
And... Parents used to kill(stone) their own children I'd they were evil, consistently disobeyed, or disrespected the family. Our culture is different, but If you have kids and think parents after 18 years of continual provisions don't have some say in that childs life, I think your nieve. Other countries, like in asia, still have a family respect and honor ... And they disown if you bring shame. Back then, a disrespectful or disobedient child could get parents killed. Think in times of kings and queens and dictators... The child represented the parents. Where do you think "son of a B-" insult came from...(bit%h meaning female whore) Not a insult to you, but to your mom. But you care for your mom and get reputation, so your get angry.
God is justified and punishing his own creation. (his children) . God has given us much, and ask we abide correctly on earth. Adam was given ALL if the garden but one thing. Over all animals, living thing and a wife. Never had to work. We are givibg much in our parents house... Consider their sacrifice, they don't ask much to follow their rules which are for our benefit.
But for americans, to put honor, dignity, and punishment in perceptive, consider your favorite movie with military in it, we love the heros with guns, BUT notice we also cheer when the us marine villain who proudly blew up a village killing innocent people. When the hero brings villain to the light , the villain is facing court marshall. He then takes his own life, as he knows he's brought shame to the us military and will face the same punishment and humiliation on a public scale. As americans we think this is ok, or justified for him to commit suicide. This is american example, but its simular across the globe. Honor is everything. All men know right from wrong, its engraved on our hearts. And consequence is inevitable.
Many people do not understand the difference between the murder of an innocent and the execution of a crimminal. When God kills, this is a Righteous Judge executing judgement on crimminals for unrepentent and often extreme crimminal behavior.
Removing verses from the commentary of the surrounding scripture and critising them out of their context is using the reasoning of a child.
This kind of "editing" is also used by the media in order to make a story more interesting and/or to discredit someone.
God owns life, he has the right to do as he sees fit, especially when people behave like animals. Can you judge God? Are you more holy and more righteous than him. That is a big ego. Did you make those people, do you know what they were doing? Did you feed them that you say you care, Did you give to them more than God gave to them? Are you gooder than God?
Isn't it amazing how many religious people respond to this post so defensively by protesting that god is beyond human knowledge, but then immediately say that they know what god wants?
And why are they so defensive anyway? Steve counts the killings listed in the bible and these people get upset. Are they worried that a casually murderous god might not fit with the image they have built in their minds?
Most delerious are those who scream and preach with glee that we doubters will be tortured forever. We need look no further to see the pure evil that can be instilled in people's minds by religion.
Religion itself is really the best disproof of its god. There is a vanishingly small likelihood of the universe being created by some being, but if such a being existed, just imagine how insulting all religion are; being described as one who murders and tortures so indiscriminately, becomes insanely jealous and petty, and so insecure as needing to be praised constantly.
If people believe in a god then they must think we were given intelligence for a good reason. Surely then to believe without reason is to make the greatest misuse of that wonderful brain.
Religion! It is such a blight. I am so relieved all religions are finally dying. And contrary to what religious nuts say, statistics are aplenty showing that as we lose religion we become more kind and moral and peaceful.
(See Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies or if you don't like pdf documents I uploaded the html to my site after the Journal of Religion and Society removed theirs. My copy is at here.)
I agree completely that the God mentioned in the Old Testament isn't pretty. I agree that fundamental religion rarely ends well. I came here to find and explain my doubts.
BUT. Three things for you all to consider. The first is that this God is one that kills many people for small crimes. Then, he sent Jesus, who there is really no doubt did live, and claimed to be Gods Son and overthrew the old religion (for which God did not send a pillar of fire to kill him). Then, we killed him. Killed Gods own son. The biggest sin in all of history. And at that point, the death and resurection, the killings stop. God did not wipe out all of humanity and has killed no one in a pillar of fire and plague since.
The second is that the Bible contains a whole lot that is true and good. If you ever want to look for what human nature needs to look like to be perfect, check the Bible. Specifically, Galatians 5:22-23 and 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. Quite a complete list. You tell me that those are bad, that anything that encourages those qualities is a blight on the face of the earth. Religion can be, and often is, good. I would love to see everyone practicing those qualities. But yes, is also often really bad, just as bad as the rest of the world. Cause human nature is not practicing those qualities.
And the third thing is simple. Those list of qualities? Jesus did them. He did them all, he did them perfectly.
God & religion have killed millions, possibly billions throughout history. In the bible alone god kills millions. That doesn't tell us how many died during the inquisition, witch burnings, the crusades & enlightenment. In Ireland, it was the Catholics vs the Protestants. In the Middle East, its people killing members of their own religion. Just imagine what god could do if he actually existed. Religion is by far the worst serial killer/mass murderer in history.
Your pulling a Job, God created us from dust ”By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return”. As creator God doesn't answer to you we dwell in these fleshly mortal bodies our spirit doesn't die. “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell” It's were your spirit is going to reside that matters. We inhabit this flesh, all the things you believe you have control over but you can't enter or leave this fleshly body that's left up to God to do.... Sorry to burst your bubble.
You mentioned God's judgment on Pharaoh but you forgot it was punishment remember his edict “when you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him”.
God gave the ultimate sacrifice so you wouldn't have to sustain the same fate as Satan and you like him just laugh it off.... Here's my suggestion Get saved then when you see the Father ask him about why he pasted judgment on one group of people and not others...
Stop trying to judge the Father when you don't/can’t know the real WHY.....
That person is not pulling a Job. He is pulling Jobs wife who wanted Job to curse God and die. He does not know Jesus. He does not know God's laws. God killed people who killed good people who kept his laws. Inquisition, witch burnings were done by people who took God's name in vain. Muslims deserved to get what they got. They are real witches. The voice of the master is not in the Quran. Rosie is blind to the spirit on both sides having no ability to decerne between the two. Islam is idolatry being the same as Baal worshipers using the same symbol. The spirit that has Satan in it will die in God's light. Both soul and body will be dead being in the earth being another name for Hell. God's light will burn to the lowest hell getting rid of all signs of sin. No one will see God's light as the fires of Hell from that point on. God does not say kill without a reason. He protects people who keep love works no ill. Satan will be cast into burning bodies and souls that are burning in God's judging light after the second resurrection. The wicked see God's light as fire and brimstone.
Why does the Exodus story have Yahweh stop at the first born Egyptians, why not kill down to the 5th born ? Wouldn't Pharoah himself have been a first born and wouldn't many of the actual top officials have been first born ? Why not just cause all the non-Israelite women in Canaan to miscarry persistently for 40 years or just be infertile; then the Israelites could have just expanded by their offspring into the region without having to war against the other natives.
Well sort of handy that it was only the first born - a number that could disappear without trace cause if all Egyptians had died then it would be hard to dispute and hard to claim it there were still millions of Egyptian still in existence. ( Well they could always claim that Satan miraculously magically made a whole load more Egyptians to replace the ones God had terminated )
Jesus allowed Satann the death angel to go so far and no farter. All that happened would have never happened had the Pharaoh respected God's messenger. The nations were evil like the Quran followers. God did not want them to mix. Satan has no creative power.
Jesus who is God allowed Satan the death angel to go so far and no farter. All that happened would have never happened had the Pharaoh respected God's messenger. The nations were evil like the Quran followers. God did not want them to mix. Satan has no creative power.
“Myths, legends and stories are the signposts previous generations have left us so we don’t have to figure out our own personal journey in solitude!
They have to be metaphorical, because their interpretation will be different for each individual life!”
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The level of incompetence and mere ignorance. I pray for you with love my brothers and sisters, that our Holy Father may come to forgive you.
Thanks Aja.
Nothing fails like prayer!
Ok im going to say something if you dont agree thats fine im not going to argue gor ours at end. Im a christian. Firstly i would like to say this site was one i stumled upon by accident but ive been reading posts all the way back from 2006 waaaay back. And all the facts everyobe decided to through around is wrong most of it is taken out of cobtext to suit the current arguement...
Let me explain something when God made everything He made it without sin. He made Adam and Eve and wanted them to love God and to have a relationship with Him, now if He wanted that then Adam and Eve would neet to be able to make their own choices otherwise its not real love its like having your alarm go off on your phone every 10min with a message saying i love you. After the 2second message its going to mean nothing anymore. Thats why Adam and Eve had one Fruit they were Told not to eat not made unable to eat they were given the freefreedom of choice. Satan looking like a snake misled adam and eve and because they did what they werent suppose to sin came into the world. God can easilly take away the sin but because the sin spread everywhere nothing will be left we will all go out of existence die if you would call it that. But God still gave us an out..
2Questions
1) if something happened and you would die today do you kbow you will go to heaven or are you going to hell.
2) if you make it through another day and then go to sleep and wake up infront of the gate to heaven and God was standing there aswel. What would you answer Him if He asked you why should He let you into His hevean.
In 1Joh5:13 the Bible even said this is writtwn so you can know that you can go to heaven.
God gives us the key(if you wish to call it that) to heaven as a free gift. Litterally free. Romans6:23 out of grace you are saved through faith.
If i would come from paris and i brought you a gift but you go fetch your wallet and gave me money would it still be a gift(no it wouldnt)
Just like that we cant buy or earn our way into heavan.
We will understand this more if we look at what the Bible sais about Man.
We all are sinners
Romans3:23 for we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Let for arguments sake say i was making an omlette for you and i already thrown in everything but the eggs. When i break the first two eggs they went in perfectly but when i broke the last it was this rotten green blue egg. If i made the omlette with that egg in their would you eat it.( i really hope you dont lol) no just like that one rotten egg made the whole batch rotten one sin made everything full of sin. Its the sin that makes us sick or makes us murderers ect. Because of this sin in us we cannot go to heaven because only those who arent full of sin can go to hevean. Now this means no one will go to heaven. Myself included. Now there was a man named Garcia he use to batlle aginst kings and he had men who followed him into battle. But because of this they couldnt stay at the same place to long or the would be found and slaughtered. So they traveled and had n limt to food water ect. One day a mand came to
Garcia and tells him someone is stealing the water. And food. Garcia said to catch this person and the punishment will be given. A week or so went by and the man came back with both good and bad news the good news was that they found the thief the bad news was the thief was his mom. No he could easily say she is pardoned but that wouldnt be fair to everyone but if his mom is going to take the lashings she will die. He se continue with the lashings. And he went to his mother who was tied hugging a post and he took off his armour and took the lashings in her place. In this way he showed his love for his mother and fairness to his people. In the same way God shows us how much He loves us while still being fair. God does this through His son Jesus Christ.
Who was Jesus. He was man and God
Joh1:1,14
In the begining was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.. And the word became flesh and dwedwelt amongst us.
He died on the cross to overcome death with the key to eternal life (going to heaven) on a side not they found Jesus grave and it was empty. Proven.. Jesus took the burden of our sin apon himself. Before Jesus came down God would look at us and but only see our sin then after Jesus he cant see oyr sins because its on Jesus
We recieve this gift through faith.
If i tell you the seat your on wont take your weight if you stand and sit down again you would laugh at me but that is how easily God wants us to place our lives in His hands to have Him as your Lord think about what i said all the way to now but
Think and i really mean think about what i said dont blow it off as rubish while you read think about the 2Questions aswel. Any Questions post ill keep an eye open.
There's no accidents under Heaven.You have no idea of the Spiritual realms on top of us.These realms where made after the earth was a void ,a earth that was a mass of water and the spirit's roamed it's surface.these same angels our an separated operating system 3rd.party,a covenant like the sun&moon , angels are chained to all planetary operations.and just like those covenant God made with the sun,moon,etc.... Gods perfect Law of liberty is the same thing an separated operating system for God that works automatically....all by its self.... auto-retro-facto-law.This system is on top of us,in the books of Ezekiel,daniel ,we get a small glyphs of what it looks like.we got Heaven on earth invisible courts system ,that span's from here too Heaven were the ancients of days prossess all findings found on earth than after there decisions it comes down to earth in the form of judgement,punishment......with only about 3week back log....not bad considering the angels record everything and write down everything,they hear everyone's thoughts ? Recording every sin thought,sin beginning is in the mind,and we are judged for our evil thoughts,the same as if we actually did it.and they record everything seen and done...there is no secret that can hide from Jehovah's eye's....and they prossess all the sin on earth everyday.....mind blowing... right!!! That's why Jehovah's army's of angels are countless,numberless,Zillions... actually 9 kind of angels,with some unclassified spirts,i call unclassified because that's what they are.and besides that we have angels coming and going up and down Jacobs ladder everyday the numbers are staggering; like 150,000 people die everyday they can handle a case load up too a million+souls..but on an average day it's 150,000+souls They escort up Jacobs ladder back home to heaven are where ever the dead go... that's going up ..now going down about 500,000 babys are Born everyday... I'm thinking the soul is bought down,but the soul my be at conception,dont know about that mystery completely yet?? But I do know that God made all souls at the same time,and there's only so many souls...I do know that!!! And God can at any time can send mercy,and is slow to anger...and heaven can send independent torpedoes anytime he wishes....and one more factor Psalms 78:49; God also sends evil angels too evil people....who of course bring them case into Justice ,or just have them go mad ,loco and they kill each other... short story is God gives mankind chance after chance...They just don't have any EARS???and God don't have to do nothing but wait ;his auto-retro-facto-law God's perfect Law of liberty.... does it ALL by itself.... separate operating system 3rd.party from God right hear on earth...Evil cannot begot Evil......God gets no joy out of killing the wicked....They just have no ears...and Satan never explains the small details... that's because ALL angels works for God at the end of the day...that's there jobs too test us all with Fire...so God can see who is worth anuff to enter heaven's perilous Gates and them Streets of gold...who believes the Bible and those who believe in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior....
Death must come first before life. We have all been "sown" into the "land" (this body) as seeds that will crack open, die and then come to true, eternal life in a new, eternal body.
"You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies" 1 Cor 15:36
Our currently dying body is merely a bare grain. We will all get new, eternal, glorious bodies.
and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else 1 Cor 15:37
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