In previous posts, I've tried to total the number of people killed by God and Satan in the Bible, as well as provide some estimates of their future plans in that regard. Here's a table that summarizes the results. (Follow the links in the table for the details.)
God
Satan
Total number killed (not including un-numbered killings)
Those numbers are incorrect by orders of magnitude. If one accepts that God gives life and takes it back, every living thing which has ever existed on earth or ever will exist are His victims. That number immediately goes into the trillions and that is simply counting human victims.
But wait. If you are a Christian, you're going to buy the line that through Satan, death came into the world. So then that means Satan killed everyone.
If you're an athiest, well then you don't believe any of this God nonsense. So then really who killed whom? Do parents get the blame? They created life through their reproduction, so then it's their fault their kids die. Or do we just blame entropy? After all, the laws of the universe say that things will slow down, break apart and disintegrate over time.
But why are we whining about death anyways? That's what happens. Things live. Things die. Do ants sit around questioning who killed whom? Maybe. Who knows.
But really, athiests haven't been any kinder than the God of the Bible. Look at Stalin-responsible for about 50 million deaths/murders himself.
Not that I like to be a pedant or ruin your lovely analogy but atheists don't worship Stalin and hold him up as an example of perfection. If christians agree that god is no better than stalin it begs the question as to why they worship him.
"You're forgetting the temporal nature of "this" world and that death is meaningless in light of eternity
Aww sick! Il' just go around killing everyone then, giving them a shortcut to heaven! Oh wait, the bible say's I shouldn't do that...it seems to state that dealing death is bad. It seems to regard death as meaningfull in that sense.
"death is meaningless" seems to be being a bit blasphemous there friend :P.
You also seem to speak about such things as if they are absolute fact, when in reality, all your doing getting this infomation from a 10000 year old book.
No really, please can any christian tell me why I should belive in the aboslute/unliteral etc truth of the bible over that of Harry potter?
Jesus liked to answer the Pharisees with a question when they asked one...so i would like to see atheists answer this one. Prove to me that God doesn't exist..... good luck.
I can't believe I never thought of this before, but your body count for Satan turns out to be off by quite a bit: http://abunchofbiblediscussions.blogspot.com/2007/03/jobs-hidden-burden.html
If I see one more use of the acronym "diaf," I'm going to ask God MYSELF to Sodomize the Internet. When I say Sodomize, I mean what God did to the city of Sodom, not what the marriage laws of America are doing to gays. -shayn nicely
Marshal said... "Look at Stalin-responsible for about 50 million deaths/murders himself."
I realize your comment is very old at this point, but for the sake of anyone else that reads this garbage let me draw a distinction.
Steve's list includes killings by God or ordered by God. These killings were done "In God's name" so to speak. When you point to Stalin, you're arguing that a killing done by an atheist is equivalent to a killing ordered by God or condoned by God. That's a false equivocation! If you're going to take that position, then you must compare the murder committed by Stalin to any murder committed by a Christian. I don't think you want to go down that road as it would greatly inflate Steve's already monstrous numbers. Let's take, for instance, the holocaust. Hitler was a Roman Catholic, so even though one might debate whether his atrocities were divinely inspired or condoned, you cannot debate the fact that it was ordered by a Christian. Shall we discuss the Crusades? The French religion wars? The ongoing battle between Catholics and protestants in Ireland? Stick to Steve's methodology would be my advice. To do otherwise only digs you into a greater hole of tyranny.
God vs. Satan... God has killed more people. I have a question for you. Who has SAVED more people? God gives abundant, eternal life. Satan leads people astray to death and eternal punishment and wrath.
I would rather die on the side of a God who saves then live for Satan who seduces people into destruction. If you aren't a child of God, then you are by default a child of Satan. "There is a way that seems right to a man, but leads to DEATH."
So yes, God has poured out wrath (that we deserve!), God has killed... but only that same God can save, only He holds the key to eternal life (which we don't deserve!).
You have a choice- God/life or Satan/death. "As for me and my household- we will serve the LORD"
To J92185...Your rationalization is incorrect, because you rely on a fact that is not true. The blog author does not believe in Satan either. God/Satan is the same made up story. The author was just trying to make a point when comparing the acts of God and Satan as portrayed in the Bible, which also happens to be a book of fairytales. In sum, there is no Satan and there is no God, just people's imagination.
Satan's attorney at work, this is sooo funny, he really got you. Satan killings are not reported, they are the ones killed on the street today, the ones overdose, the one who shot others because they are mad, the ones who got sick, you cannot come even close. And by the way, what do you care about the people who died, you feed them, do they owe you anything? We all are in debt with God, if you don't pay boy, you have it coming.
@Anna Victor, My god I'm sick of people like you walking like OH YOU DONT BELIEVE LIKE ME? WELL YOUR GOING TO HELL! let me tell you this. according to the bible god created hell, then everything in the universe, then created this all encomposing and unalterable plan. he therefore is ultimately responsible for sending people to hell.
The great thing about God is that as we are given to know him better (only through accepting Jesus Christ) is that we know the truth. God is real, as well he wants us to be real with him. Just as Jesus told his apostle that he will deny him, it is expected that during our trials and tribulations here we will. Even so we are forgiven. God understands what it is like for us here. Having met Christ, then (I am assuming) by God's allowing the devil introduced himself to me as well. Some people do not want to believe any of this is real, despite that it is. Yes, as another post here says. There is two ways. God's way, or the devil's. When we are God's child we know it because he will keep us on the right path. Yes, we may be pushed in front of the others by someone jealous or angry because they know (deep in their hearts) where they are going. If you read revelations then you understand there are those who will set with God. Someone said 144,000. As well there are others who will be safe in another realm, still God's. Some have already sold their souls for the things this evil earth offers. If we do not count upon our own human way of thinking and stay with our focus on Jesus (and God.) Much of this life and what is offers is a test. Why would the people of God want corrupt hearts among them eternally in heaven? So, yes, the test is here. Many, some who even still like to believe they will, will not make the grade. Maybe you will choose in your rational mind to believe there is no God and that you are the one in control of your universe. But in reality, if you are not with God then you are working with the devil. Many people working with the devil are setting in church pews. Working with God takes commitment greater than just showing your face on Sunday (or Saturday.) As God says, go to your closet (room) alone and talk to me if you want me to believe you are sincere. That is written in the Bible. So, I would advise that anyone who does not believe just go into your room and talk it out. Because if you are angry or mad you can share that with God, too. He does not mind, and he understands. God is in the Spirit. He is the Lord of Hosts. Host him. Hear what the Spirit is saying to the (Holy) church.
Mike Dillon, that is not true. We are given free will. That is stated in the Bible. To go to Hell is one's own choice. At any time a person can have a change of heart. But that will take a lot of atonement. Just look at Saul who spent much of his life persecuting Christians in the name of God. Then had a change of heart, changed his name to Paul, crusader for Christ. All apostles of Christ suffered greatly (for their earlier vain and egotistical sins, I assume) in order to bring others to the cross, to enlighten others about the truth and the Word of God. If their lives, and their salvation has no meaning to anyone else, then it is what it is. But once you have known Christ there is no going back, no matter the suffering. God is worth it. The devil is not. And the arrogant and egotistical devil, deep in his own (heartless) brain knows it. Thank you God.
I remember something about Satan having to ask permission before he can so something, but what about if he doesn't ask permission? What would happen to Satan if he does that? Would God manipulate his plan in a way to work around Satan, but not affect free will. Deep study is needed to see if there are contradictions or if it is really just confusing.
24 comments:
Those numbers are incorrect by orders of magnitude. If one accepts that God gives life and takes it back, every living thing which has ever existed on earth or ever will exist are His victims. That number immediately goes into the trillions and that is simply counting human victims.
tc399 said...
"Those numbers are incorrect by orders of magnitude."
Not if you're talking about the number of people killed in the Bible, which is what the table summarizes.
But wait. If you are a Christian, you're going to buy the line that through Satan, death came into the world. So then that means Satan killed everyone.
If you're an athiest, well then you don't believe any of this God nonsense. So then really who killed whom? Do parents get the blame? They created life through their reproduction, so then it's their fault their kids die. Or do we just blame entropy? After all, the laws of the universe say that things will slow down, break apart and disintegrate over time.
But why are we whining about death anyways? That's what happens. Things live. Things die. Do ants sit around questioning who killed whom? Maybe. Who knows.
But really, athiests haven't been any kinder than the God of the Bible. Look at Stalin-responsible for about 50 million deaths/murders himself.
Not that I like to be a pedant or ruin your lovely analogy but atheists don't worship Stalin and hold him up as an example of perfection. If christians agree that god is no better than stalin it begs the question as to why they worship him.
So how many has God killed in the old Testement verses the New Testement?
Isn't the definitive number for people allowed into heaven 144,000? Surely that quota has been filled by now.
144,000 in heaven is the limit?
There should be plenty of room then, as I can't think of more than a half-dozen souls who'd qualify.
"You're forgetting the temporal nature of "this" world and that death is meaningless in light of eternity
Aww sick! Il' just go around killing everyone then, giving them a shortcut to heaven! Oh wait, the bible say's I shouldn't do that...it seems to state that dealing death is bad. It seems to regard death as meaningfull in that sense.
"death is meaningless" seems to be being a bit blasphemous there friend :P.
You also seem to speak about such things as if they are absolute fact, when in reality, all your doing getting this infomation from a 10000 year old book.
No really, please can any christian tell me why I should belive in the aboslute/unliteral etc truth of the bible over that of Harry potter?
Jesus liked to answer the Pharisees with a question when they asked one...so i would like to see atheists answer this one. Prove to me that God doesn't exist.....
good luck.
I can't believe I never thought of this before, but your body count for Satan turns out to be off by quite a bit: http://abunchofbiblediscussions.blogspot.com/2007/03/jobs-hidden-burden.html
to jtothep: If you believe that unicorns don't exist, prove to me that unicorns don't exist.
to brucker: hundreds or thousands killed by Satan is still less than millions or billions killed by God
You people arguing seriously about these numbers makes me want to add to that number starting with the top of this list. diaf plz
No matter what anyone says, creating something doesn't give you the right to kill it.
If I see one more use of the acronym "diaf," I'm going to ask God MYSELF to Sodomize the Internet. When I say Sodomize, I mean what God did to the city of Sodom, not what the marriage laws of America are doing to gays.
-shayn nicely
where do your numbers come from?
Becca H,
Just click on the link (the number) in the table and it will take you to a post that explains where the number came from.
Marshal said... "Look at Stalin-responsible for about 50 million deaths/murders himself."
I realize your comment is very old at this point, but for the sake of anyone else that reads this garbage let me draw a distinction.
Steve's list includes killings by God or ordered by God. These killings were done "In God's name" so to speak. When you point to Stalin, you're arguing that a killing done by an atheist is equivalent to a killing ordered by God or condoned by God. That's a false equivocation! If you're going to take that position, then you must compare the murder committed by Stalin to any murder committed by a Christian. I don't think you want to go down that road as it would greatly inflate Steve's already monstrous numbers. Let's take, for instance, the holocaust. Hitler was a Roman Catholic, so even though one might debate whether his atrocities were divinely inspired or condoned, you cannot debate the fact that it was ordered by a Christian. Shall we discuss the Crusades? The French religion wars? The ongoing battle between Catholics and protestants in Ireland? Stick to Steve's methodology would be my advice. To do otherwise only digs you into a greater hole of tyranny.
God vs. Satan... God has killed more people. I have a question for you. Who has SAVED more people? God gives abundant, eternal life. Satan leads people astray to death and eternal punishment and wrath.
I would rather die on the side of a God who saves then live for Satan who seduces people into destruction. If you aren't a child of God, then you are by default a child of Satan. "There is a way that seems right to a man, but leads to DEATH."
So yes, God has poured out wrath (that we deserve!), God has killed... but only that same God can save, only He holds the key to eternal life (which we don't deserve!).
You have a choice- God/life or Satan/death. "As for me and my household- we will serve the LORD"
To J92185...Your rationalization is incorrect, because you rely on a fact that is not true. The blog author does not believe in Satan either. God/Satan is the same made up story. The author was just trying to make a point when comparing the acts of God and Satan as portrayed in the Bible, which also happens to be a book of fairytales. In sum, there is no Satan and there is no God, just people's imagination.
Satan's attorney at work, this is sooo funny, he really got you. Satan killings are not reported, they are the ones killed on the street today, the ones overdose, the one who shot others because they are mad, the ones who got sick, you cannot come even close. And by the way, what do you care about the people who died, you feed them, do they owe you anything? We all are in debt with God, if you don't pay boy, you have it coming.
@Anna Victor,
My god I'm sick of people like you walking like OH YOU DONT BELIEVE LIKE ME? WELL YOUR GOING TO HELL!
let me tell you this. according to the bible god created hell, then everything in the universe, then created this all encomposing and unalterable plan. he therefore is ultimately responsible for sending people to hell.
The great thing about God is that as we are given to know him better (only through accepting Jesus Christ) is that we know the truth. God is real, as well he wants us to be real with him. Just as Jesus told his apostle that he will deny him, it is expected that during our trials and tribulations here we will. Even so we are forgiven. God understands what it is like for us here. Having met Christ, then (I am assuming) by God's allowing the devil introduced himself to me as well. Some people do not want to believe any of this is real, despite that it is. Yes, as another post here says. There is two ways. God's way, or the devil's. When we are God's child we know it because he will keep us on the right path. Yes, we may be pushed in front of the others by someone jealous or angry because they know (deep in their hearts) where they are going. If you read revelations then you understand there are those who will set with God. Someone said 144,000. As well there are others who will be safe in another realm, still God's. Some have already sold their souls for the things this evil earth offers. If we do not count upon our own human way of thinking and stay with our focus on Jesus (and God.) Much of this life and what is offers is a test. Why would the people of God want corrupt hearts among them eternally in heaven? So, yes, the test is here. Many, some who even still like to believe they will, will not make the grade. Maybe you will choose in your rational mind to believe there is no God and that you are the one in control of your universe. But in reality, if you are not with God then you are working with the devil. Many people working with the devil are setting in church pews. Working with God takes commitment greater than just showing your face on Sunday (or Saturday.) As God says, go to your closet (room) alone and talk to me if you want me to believe you are sincere. That is written in the Bible. So, I would advise that anyone who does not believe just go into your room and talk it out. Because if you are angry or mad you can share that with God, too. He does not mind, and he understands. God is in the Spirit. He is the Lord of Hosts. Host him. Hear what the Spirit is saying to the (Holy) church.
Mike Dillon, that is not true. We are given free will. That is stated in the Bible. To go to Hell is one's own choice. At any time a person can have a change of heart. But that will take a lot of atonement. Just look at Saul who spent much of his life persecuting Christians in the name of God. Then had a change of heart, changed his name to Paul, crusader for Christ. All apostles of Christ suffered greatly (for their earlier vain and egotistical sins, I assume) in order to bring others to the cross, to enlighten others about the truth and the Word of God. If their lives, and their salvation has no meaning to anyone else, then it is what it is. But once you have known Christ there is no going back, no matter the suffering. God is worth it. The devil is not. And the arrogant and egotistical devil, deep in his own (heartless) brain knows it. Thank you God.
I remember something about Satan having to ask permission before he can so something, but what about if he doesn't ask permission? What would happen to Satan if he does that? Would God manipulate his plan in a way to work around Satan, but not affect free will. Deep study is needed to see if there are contradictions or if it is really just confusing.
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