And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 1:1-19
Since I revised the number on God's kill list, I also have to change the God vs. Satan killing contest results. So here it is.
In a previous post, I counted the number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,301,417, which, of course, greatly underestimates God's total death toll, since it only includes those killings for which specific numbers are given. No attempt was made to include the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc., with which the good book is filled. Still, 2 million is a respectable number even for world class killers.
But how does this compare with Satan? How many did he kill in the Bible?
Well I can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a bet. I'm talking about the seven sons and three daughters of Job.
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job ... And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
...
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD ... put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
...
And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house...And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. -- Job 1:1-19
So it seems that both Satan and God share the blame (or the credit) for these killings. If so, then the tally would be:
| killings | |
|---|---|
| God | 2,301,417 |
| Satan | 10 |
No contest.
Update
I've tried to assign numbers to the un-numbered killings in the Bible. You can see the detailed list here.
The results were even more lopsided: 33 million (plus or minus a few million) for God; 60 for Satan.
Here is a more complete table.
| numbered killings | estimated total killings | |
|---|---|---|
| God | 2,301,427 | 33 million |
| Satan | 10 | 60 |
Posts
34 comments:
Maybe Satan has killed more, he just didn't brag about it in a book.
Bragging is a sure-sign of low self-esteem, God.
If God killed at least 2.3 million in the Bible and Satan killed only 10, I guess this means you are at least 230,000 times more likely to die at the hands of God than at the hands of the Devil.
God is love, indeed.
I must say that we are suppose to fear and respect our God. The times in the bible when multiple/100's of ppl were killed at once, God doesn't do it in a sneaky way like Satan. God makes it clear the people are behaving in an unchristian like or unfair way. God's people were going to day (for ex: when Moses split the sea and let his ppl through). God saved his (God's) people.
As I said, everyone was warned or had the opportunity to believe and follow, those who died chose not to. Whether that is fare or not, idk. If i hadn't grown up in a Christian home, I would probably find it difficult to believe, but I look around and everything is so complex. The simplest of things are still so complex. how the leaves change every fall, how everything works together so well, the eye! the eye is so complex, how could that just be? how can something so complex and so perfect just come to be? I believe in more than what is on this earth. I believe in a higher power who does give me comfort when I'm in need. and when i don't get the answer i am looking for, or don't get an answer at all, then i need to be patient, God will answer when he believes the time is right. The world isn't suppose to be fair or perfect, it is not heaven. If you want to look at the numbers of deaths in the bible, yes there were a lot. Yet be sure to look at the context and the whole story. Also it is not clear how many deaths are caused by Satan. Satan doesn't come out with a gun and kill people. Satan manipulates people, places doubt in them, and is the root of all evil. Evil is the cause of many if not all deaths. Atleast i believe that is how Christians see it.
Danielle,
You say that "everyone was warned or had the opportunity to believe and follow, those who died chose not to."
Did the Egyptian babies have a change to believe when God killed them all on the night of the Exodus? (Exodus 12:29-30)
How about the Amalekite women, children, infants, and babies? (1 Samuel 15:2-3)
It's time that you face it and admit it honestly. Your God is a monster. It's a good thing he doesn't exist.
Satan has killed the entire human race, he wins.
Genesis 3:9-24
9.Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?"
10.He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked ; so I hid myself."
11.And He said, "Who told you that you were naked ? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat ?"
12.The man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate."
13.Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done ?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
14.The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field ; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life ;
15.And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed ; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
16.To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children ; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
17.Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
18."Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field ;
19.By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken ; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
20.Now the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living.
21.The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
22.Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil ; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "-
23.therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
24.So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
Danielle, I grew up a Christian and used to believe in God. I even considered becoming a pastor! But the more I actually thought about God and what's in the Bible, the more I realized that things just don't add up. Once I got past thinking it *had* to be true, I realized it *couldn't* be true. A God who causes or allows so much death, destruction, and suffering can't be good. Maybe if you go through the Bible (the verses in the original post are a good starting point) and ask yourself honestly "why would a good God have to do all this bad stuff?" (killing kids, destroying entire cities, sending plagues, etc.), you might start to see why some people don't believe in God.
Lisa43, God created Satan. God wins.
Colossians 1:16. "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him." (NIV)
Stop taking the Bible out of context.
Do you even know what the Bible is about? Do you know how to study it? I do not think you do, seen is how you take it out of context and try to brainwash people with your lies.
First of all the entire Bible is God's plan of Redemption. These are the five sections:
1. The Need, covered in Genesis 1-11
2. The Nation, covered in Genesis 12-Malachi
3. The Person, covered in The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)
4. The Explanation, covered in Acts-The Epistles
5. The End, covered by revelation
God created mankind. Think of perfection as a box, we started there in the garden of eden. Then we sinned, therefore creating the Need. The need for redemption. Then the Nation of Israel is God's chosen people are all part of the nation. The Person, Jesus Christ, God's one and only son came to die for our sins, so we have to bare the weight of our sins no longer if he is in our heart and we confess to him. The Explanation comes next, hmmm, mabey you should read this part of the Bible. Then The End, Revelation, God comes back to earth and takes all of his faithful followers to heaven with him. He defeats satan and his followers, and if you do not believe in God, or follow false Gods you are considered just that. Then we end up where we started, the box, perfection.
Earth is just a choosing ground, do you want to follow God on earth and be selfless, and righteous, and die and go to a place of perfection for eternity? Or would you like to be selfish here on earth, act like there is no supreme authority, do whatever you like and go to hell for eternity?
The evidence of God's existence is inevitable and the life of a Christian is enriched. I don't understand why you have made it your life's mission to hate us.
Hopefully now you can study the Bible in the proper way.
Tah Tah.
Stop taking the Bible out of context.
Do you even know what the Bible is about? Do you know how to study it? I do not think you do, seen is how you take it out of context and try to brainwash people with your lies.
First of all the entire Bible is God's plan of Redemption. These are the five sections:
1. The Need, covered in Genesis 1-11
2. The Nation, covered in Genesis 12-Malachi
3. The Person, covered in The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)
4. The Explanation, covered in Acts-The Epistles
5. The End, covered by revelation
God created mankind. Think of perfection as a box, we started there in the garden of eden. Then we sinned, therefore creating the Need. The need for redemption. Then the Nation of Israel is God's chosen people are all part of the nation. The Person, Jesus Christ, God's one and only son came to die for our sins, so we have to bare the weight of our sins no longer if he is in our heart and we confess to him. The Explanation comes next, hmmm, mabey you should read this part of the Bible. Then The End, Revelation, God comes back to earth and takes all of his faithful followers to heaven with him. He defeats satan and his followers, and if you do not believe in God, or follow false Gods you are considered just that. Then we end up where we started, the box, perfection.
Earth is just a choosing ground, do you want to follow God on earth and be selfless, and righteous, and die and go to a place of perfection for eternity? Or would you like to be selfish here on earth, act like there is no supreme authority, do whatever you like and go to hell for eternity?
The evidence of God's existence is inevitable and the life of a Christian is enriched. I don't understand why you have made it your life's mission to hate us.
Hopefully now you can study the Bible in the proper way.
Tah Tah.
The Devil isn't allowed to kill anyone without God's permission, so therefore God killed everybody.
But in reality, "The teacher didn't fail you, you failed yourself". If you understand what I mean ;-).
Also, thank you for showing us how many people "God killed". At least we know that God didn't kill the most amount of people in the world, at least as not as much as humans have.
Personally, I think your wasting your life doing... whatever your doing. In fact, all your articles just made me realize how stupid people are (mainly the ones that try to prove him wrong by using the bible lol!), and how great God is. Thanks lol :-).
To Danielle:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/futuyma_complex.html
will tell you what you need to know about the evolution of the eye, even with pictures.
So, why am I born to need saving because someone else who I've never met did something bad under the influence of a fallen being God created and could have but didn't bother to destroy? Seems like extortion to me.
Just, y'know, curious. I'm trying to see the advantage of worshiping a God who already has me in the negative. Gotta sell it, man.
MaDDog says people should stop taking the Bible out of context.
MaDDog is an idiot, considering the bible -- especially the old testament -- is the most ridiculous piece of fiction ever written. He's also an idiot because he claims to have knowledge about a supernatural being that no one can have.
He caps his insane post by saying the evidence of god's existence IS INEVITABLE, meaning, it will happen. So he's suggesting that as of today, there is no evidence for god's existence. And he's right. Just like there's no evidence for unicorns, dragons and fairies.
@MaDDoG Stop taking the Bible out of context? LOL too funny. So let me get this straight - god created man in a garden with a fruit tree HE KNEW the humans would eat from. So he set them up for failure to begin with right? He created the talking snake to tempt them right? Think logically about the absurd fairy tales you believe and wake up. Why would an all powerful, all knowing god have human emotions? Why would an omnipotent being get angry? Can you imagine god wanting anything? Think...think....think!
It is impossible to take the bible out of context. It has no context. It is a collection of myths, legends, stories (ordinary fiction or parables or metaphors) and sure, a bit of history.
And there is no point in addressing Genesis "in context" as it is manifestly pure myth from beginning to end. The Universe was not created in six days by a being who moved over the face of a pre-existing "deep" (ocean). There was no garden of Eden. There was no temptation, no fall from a state of perfection. There was no expulsion, no "being cursed with death". There was no rain that fell that covered the earth in 40 days (that would be 5 inches of rain a minute, for those of you with calculators and a knowledge of the height of Mount Everest) -- you would drown standing up and no non-submersible boat ever built would not sink under it). There was no (submersible) ark, it did not contain all of the species on the planet in either pairs or sets of seven pairs, it did not preserve the lives of a single family from whom the human race then restored itself.
All of this is known from evidence, literally mountains of evidence, plus just the tiniest dose of common sense. Unfortunately, BICCs (Biblically Inerrant Conservative Christians) have learned to turn off their common sense when it comes to the Bible. And (it seems) they are absolutely incapable of doing arithmetic, let alone actual mathematics, so things like radiometric dating are some sort of mystical juju to them where reading the words of Genesis are simple Truth by Divine Revelation.
So no, mad dog -- we weren't created perfect, we evolved (and continue to evolve) from the less "perfect" to the more, where the standard of perfection is fitness to survive. We do not need salvation because of original sin because there was no original sin. And from this fact alone, the rest of the OT and NT is rendered pointless.
To me, a simple and sufficient cause to reject the Bible can be found in Numbers 31, where God tells Moses to tell his troops to commit genocide. Not just any old genocide -- they are to wipe out the women and children of a conquered people (right down to babies in arms) except for young virgin females. The men are to take those for themselves, so they can finish off their bloodletting with a little slave-rape.
These weren't impersonal deaths, of course. Back then killing somebody meant hacking them open or stabbing them and watching while their life quivered out of them in a pool of their own blood and feces. Tens of thousands of murders -- as this was no act of war, it was an act of murder.
So c'mon, my BICC friends. Face up to your faith. Visualize Moses, a righteous man (according to the Bible, in spite of his lies, deceptions, and acts of egregious violence, not to mention his incredible stupidity as it took him forty years to move his people a couple of hundred miles from Egypt into Israel), one the NT records as walking with Jesus post resurrection at the ascension -- and then visualize his troops at his direct command killing babies. I mean real, live babies -- in their mother's arms. I mean small children, trying to hide behind the safety of their parent's legs even as that parent is gutted. I mean little boys feeling their life flow out of them through a hole that passes through their lungs even as your murderer strips your sister and investigates with a still-bloody finger whether or not she is a virgin, then raping her (either way) before your dying eyes.
That's God for you.
rgb
This post was so hysterically funny, I laughed out loud. The charts are priceless. One of the problems with most religious people is that they have no sense of humor. To them, everything is so damn serious.
And, of course, they accuse you of wasting your life ---what's more wasteful than worshipping something that doesn't exist? They don't get it and never will.
Despite claiming people must be believers in order to be moral, many Christians don't act much better than their god. See my new series "Christians Behaving Badly" on my blog:
http://tirelesswing.blogspot.com
I like what rgb above said about Moses and his people killing the babies. Killing 40+ million babies via abortion each year world wide doesn’t seem so bad.
rgb, you seem to be right on. I just started reading the Bible, to see what the thing actually says from start to finish. You know, a lot of Christian conservatives balk at the violence and awful things that are shown on television and are a part of our society today, but if you open up the Bible and read any part of the Pentateuch, you will find things far worse. Blood blood blood blood. Violent and nauseating. God marks his people by forcing them to chop off part of their men's penises, and was even going to kill Moses over a circumcision. How loving: "chop off the tip your penis or die!" See Exodus 4:24 to 4:26. And don't forget about dear Dinah, oh! And the killing of Aaron's son's just for the offense of swinging the censors in the wrong fashion in the temple! I've yet to read a comforting word in the Bible. If there is a God, it cannot be the one who is written of in this book. He is a cruel dictator who is obsessed with blood. Fling it on the alter, 7 times, smear it on the alter horns, and burn it. God says it smells good.
As supernatural creatures are the products of our thinking, we are responsible for all the deaths. Sometimes some of the more benighted amongst us attribute these deaths to god, sometimes to satan.
Nice post
web design India
but the whole jesus story IS merely a remake of a remake of an older story (yawn) Horus, Mithras - Biblical stories USED older and familiar stories becasue its easier to manipulate and control people with the familiar, rather than have to contend with their natural suspicion and mistrust of the strange. It also taps into pre-existing beliefs and merely has to reinterpret them, and then add extra conidtions.
Does anybody have the relevant passage that says the talking snake is indeed Satan? Because I didn't see any mention of the snake being anything more than a talking snake. And now he is denied legs as a reward for his effort of bringing knowledge to mankind.
To the loudmouth skeptics:
What gives you the right as a human being whose life is held in the hands of God, to raise your peeny little voice against Him? Maybe while you are trying to bring perspective to the masses you should consider how you came about your own.
Indeed, you have done the maths and calculated that God has the power over life and death (including yours). Seeing you found the answer, should He therefore not be feared, instead of being mocked? As it is you express your mockery towards Him on borrowed time. Unless you think that you will live forever. That will be a first!
It is not your logic that keeps you from believing in God as the creator of all things, but your own wicked nature. That nature is attributable to Satan as your father to whom you bow and obviously worship as your hero.
So what has Satan done for you? Has he come to you to comfort you in sorrow or in death? Has he made plants grow; or the stuff that you so willingly eat? Or has he created the universe? Does he bring you joy at night? Does he promise you salvation? Where is his book that he has written and where has he communicated to you?
God gave you life and will surely also take it away, not in your time, but in His time. That power demands of its subjects a great humility of the kind that has gone forgotten in the "free" world. Your freedom has not made you a better person has it? You are now also free to be a horrible person and get away with it. Strange that our freedom has not brought us a better world or made us better people.
What you miss is that God is brutally honest concerning what happens on earth. Satan on the other hand deceives and hides behind lies. But run to Satan your buddy. See if he can save you from a sure death to come. God has provided for those who understand and believe a way out of this wicked world. You may be happy in this world, like a pig in dung, and that is all you will ever have apart from the arguments that only sounds clever to those who has chosen death over life.
God's word is not a book of science. It is a book that explains in many ways and with many pictures, that human beings are bad (that's fairly obvious except to the self-conceited). It paints a picture of life and like the best art works that picture is honest and pulls no punches. Then it is a spiritual picture that can only be grasped by a spiritual person. Mocker and lovers of Satan certainly will not get it. Mockers are a bit like those who shun a meal by preconceived ideas but who has personally never tasted it.
God said that to those who are clean, that everything is clean, and to the filthy everything is filthy. And it refers to a state of being, but I am sure you mockers will find a way of degrading truth again. To understand God and his word requires a changed heart from being mockingly haughty and wicked to being humbled before the presence of God. That is the hardest thing for modern self-fulfilled and self-righteous "free" people to do. But when you know God you understand that He is good and loving, and you will also know that you are nothing despite your own self-important and inflated opinion of yourself. A heart filled with the same hatred that Satan has for God can never grasp God's goodness and the peace that follows faith in God as the Creator, Savior, and giver of life.
Mockers, you play with words from your so-called clever minds. God tolerates this because He is patient and do not wish you ill. But if you read more of His Word that you mock so readily, you will find that to shun that patience will hold a dear price to your eternal soul. Perhaps, before you mock again, consider the guilt you heap upon your guilt.
Ahh, christians are so entertaining!!! lol
Talk about taking the bible out of contex...lol Christians are the only ones guilty of that. Only mindless idiots can read the bible and see nothing but good in its god. The bible clearly says that god told moses, that whatever land his feet land on, he is demanded to take it by violent force and leave none alive, except young virgin girls. Only a mindless idiot would think that, that is love..lol
Give me a fucking break!
You christians should be ashamed of yourselves!!!!! Shame on you! Killing others for their land and virgins is bad. Killing others that do not believe as you do, is bad.
No wonder christians are more likely to commit violent crimes, than atheists and non-believers.
Christians believe it is ok to kill for land that does NOT belong to them and see nothing wrong with raping young virgins..SHAME ON YOU!!! I guess that explains why christians are more likely to rape and molest children as well commit violent acts.
SHAME ON YOU CHRISTIANS!!!
Oh yeah, and HAIL SATAN!!
Hey folks, keep down the polemic discussion here. The bible is just a book written by humans to explain things they couldn't explain. A storybook, so to speak. Still, the fact that the Bible is no more than that does not negate the existence of a god in some form (and be it that the belief in a god itself fulfils the purpose of said supposed god) - just like there is nothing wrong with honoring a leader and philosopher like Jesus of Nazareth for his ideas and deeds.
Anyway, interesting kill count, makes you wonder what the authors of the Bible intended. I suppose it has to do with deciding over life and death being the ultimate sign of authority, therefore this sets Jahwe up as a much more potent authority than it does Satan. Also, he is ranking sixth on the list of history's most brutal killers (a list headed by Mao Zedong).
The truth of the Bible is provable. If you have faith, you can drink poison and yet live. If you are sick, God/Jesus will heal you.
The fact that Christians die of poisoning and obituary columns are filled with Christian cancer victims proves the nonsense of the Bible. Even more nonsense is the notion of hospitals being named after "saints" and having an admission question about one's religion...if their faith worked as promised in the Bible they wouldn't need a hospital. Such stupidity.
Sounds like god and new world order are one in the same.......its all about the power...always has, and always will be. Ive often wanted to ask the die hard believers in god why if god didn't save any of the 6 million men,women, and children of the unspeakable torture and experiments and slow deaths under the reign of Hitler, why do you think he would save you?
Well I can see how great idiots have written comments for this post. You all say that God killed more than Satan and that god is much more evil than the Satan. from your point I can clearly understand that a terrorist who kills a hundreds of people is a much greater person than a true soldier who kills hundreds of people in order to protect his nation. what a great educated geniuses you people are!!!!!!!! and by the way I am not here, trying to protect God. I am here to say that don't disgrace god by your foul thoughts and ideas. and dear people God exists beyond Christianity.
I'd be very interested to know who Satan's 50 extra kills were.
Also, Sawyme, please find me records of any single soldier killing over 10 people, let alone "hundreds of people." Life isn't like it seems in video games. In my opinion, if a soldier did kill more people than a terrorist, he IS more evil.
By the way, we can all see "what a great educated geniuses" you are by your impeccable grammar and logic in your post.
Fear. That's what the descriptions of blood, slaughter, and rape are all about. Fear. Christians don't love god. They fear him. They fear retribution and hell therefore they behave themselves and do exactly as they're told. The new Roman Empire is the Roman Catholic Church. Which then spread to other christian faiths. And don't forget the donation plate!
Ha! Great kill counter! As for the people arguing with Christians, there's no point, the fact they believe in the Bible and God's existance should tell you that we, they and us, don't operate on the same level; common sense vs. misguided optimism.
Ahh!
On thing you people have forgotten is that God has a timetable, and what we have here appears to be a mere hiatus in the events in the stream of time...
The bible is quite correct, but I recommend you to read more here...
That's the truth but you are just not ready for it yet maybe!
http://www.tangotango.org.uk/
The bible is bang on time, and we are in the "quiet before the storm"
Time to gather pace for those who are ready for the final phases of this system!
http://www.mark-lawton.com
Yes people, learn to read the bible correctly. And while you're doing it, please remember that 2+2=5.
To Danielle,
I just love the eye argument, if we were created as it says in the bible, to be over or better than every animal, then why would the biblical god give the most advanced eye of any creature (even ours) to a shrimp?
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-03/eye-mantis-shrimp
hey, how many hebrews you think died at the hand of other hebrews. jewish people complain so many outsiders have killed them over the years, but im wondering how many jews have been killed by other jews.
Great blog and nice post I am trying to maintain a list of cute blogs. Thanks and nice collection of blogs. I’m going to have to browse through those. it’s nice I can come and read your blog.
ccna ccent
Post a Comment