I’ve often heard that God loves everyone. He hates the sin, but loves the sinner. And that might be true about some gods. But the God of the Bible hates people, right along with the sin (and figs, rags, shrimp, cephalopods, and Christmas trees).
Consider these verses:
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. -- Leviticus 20:23
I will ... cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. -- Leviticus 26:30
And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them ... for they are ... children in whom is no faith. -- Deuteronomy 32:19-20
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. -- Psalm 5:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. -- Psalm 11:5
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. -- Proverbs 6:16, 19
I hated Esau. -- Malachi 1:3, Romans 9:13
So the Bible-God hates some people (foreign nations, workers of iniquity, wicked people, and liars, to name a few). But there is only one person (that I know of) that God hates by name. What is the name of this God-hated person?
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8 comments:
I’ve often heard that God loves everyone. He hates the sin, but loves the sinner. And that might be true about some gods.
And yet every passage you mentioned refers to people who would have been tremendous sinners in God's eyes. The pagan nations who cut themselves and sacrificed children...people that LOVE violence..."workers of iniquity" (remember Psalms are written by people speculating about God, not necessarily quoting absolutes). Oh, and people who lie and "soweth discord" (or try to separate people and tear people down).
So none of those things are sins or unlawful deeds?
And abhorration is not quite the same as hatred.
Actually, the truth is, as a Christian myself (but an apologist), the "all-loving" God who hates sin but loves the sinner...is not 100% accurate. It's common teaching to make Christianity be more appealing. And there is more than enough evidence in the Bible of this as reality. But it is erroneous to assume those are the only qualities God has. He is, after all, judge (elohim). His role is one of fairness.
Wow, 4 verses, you really tried hard.
"Wow, 4 verses, you really tried hard."
Do you know of others, Jason? [Besides the God-hates-Esau verses (Malachi 1:3 and Romans 9:13)]
If you look at the context of the Malachi passage (particularly verses 4-5), you will see that God is not talking about Esau the man, but rather, Edom, his descendants. Though as a people they were a "brother" to Israel, they chose time and time again to serve other gods and not follow the one true God. Therefore, since their practices were destestable to God (the word for hate can also mean "detest"), He removed His favor from them.
The ancient Hebrew mindset saw forefather and people as one, which is why you often see Jacob mentioned in place of Israel, Esau mentioned in place of Edom, etc. It gave people a context of remembrance.
Also, in the Romans passage you mention above, I think you're missing something if you don't pay strict attention to context. Paul is quoting the saying about Jacob and Esau not because he is trying to make a point about God hating someone, but rather, because he is trying to make a point about God loving someone.
The whole point of Paul's dialogue in Romans 9 is to say that it's ok for Gentiles to be part of the church, that is, the line of God. Where once God's favor was only extended to the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (for Esau renounced his birthright), through Christ God opened the promise of His mercy to all others who would have Him. Even the descendants of Jacob screwed up miserably, Paul says, so they're no better than Esau (Edom) in the eyes of God.
The whole point is that in the Old Testament times, God granted His mercy only to the children of Israel, whereas through Christ, the opportunity was made available for all people (of any nation) to take part in His mercy.
This is to the last poster about Romans 9 and the "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated" and that this passage is about extending salvation to Gentiles.
The whole of Romans 9:1 21 is the argument that God saves whom he chooses and that we, as the creation have nothing to say about how fair or unfair it is.
The "Jacob/Esau" verse kicks it off...saying that He dealt differently with Jacob and Esau according to His plan, not something they'd done at all. His choice, His plan, etc.
He says he hardened Pharoah's heart to show His mercy. For His purpose.
anyway...just to clarify....
PS: do a web search...there are plenty more verses about how God hates sinners.
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bob
I think you should listen to yourself speak the words you write... God hates, God abhors, God casts carcasses...this is simply disgusting. A God that murders people for lashing out is not a Father at all, do you murder your children when your parenting just isnt enough? I should hope not. The fact is the Bible begins the commandments with have no other god, for I am a jealous God. So God is a hater, jealous, and a murderer. You can keep that version. Why is the Bible the only book you will allow to offer any insight. You scoff at the Quran or New Age Testaments, yet they were written the same way the Bible was, by oral tradition and by hand. You believe God inspired them yet why would he not inspire others? The New Testament was written in Egyptian Coptic so why would you insist it was divinely written in the same land God sent plagues to destroy. Be real, God is the Creator of the Universe which is incapable of hate and anger. Hell was never even mentioned until the Middle Ages when a one-time drunk, sexually offensive man reformed through his seeming insanity and wrote things about hell to the pope, so pleasing because it really unifies an empire through fear.
FaceValue, I'm concerned with your view. The Bible is a complete work. Nothing should be added to it/removed from it. To say that God is incapable of anger/hate, is absolutely wrong. God is just in His anger & because He's so Holy, God hates the workers of iniquity.
I'm sure that these questions have popped in everyone's thoughts at some point or another: "Does God love everyone?" or "Does God hate anyone?"
Folks may look at John 3:16, which is a very familiar verse; "For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life." and cause them to say "SEE, GOD LOVES EVERYONE."
& I believe this to be true. After all, He's provided a means of mercy through His Son in hopes that ALL men should repent. He desires that NONE should perish. Even in Ezekiel , God states, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.”
There are so many times displayed in Scripture that God urges the wicked, non-repentant, non-submissive people to repent. God's mercy to ALL men is not in vain.
However, this isn't to pass God off as a softie. God does hate the workers of iniquity. Because He is a Holy and He is a just God. Hate will be expresssed toward those in a condition of opposition to God---that is to say, those who choose to remain defiant, ultimately rejecting the mercy and grace that was shown through His Son Jesus Christ.
Believer: "He desires that NONE should perish."
Skeptic: And yet if God is omnipotent then he could have anything he desires.
Believer: Ah but he gave people free will and he can't stop everyone from perishing because he also wants them to have the choice to perish.
Skeptic: So you're saying that God can't both; stop all man from perishing and give all man the choice, but if God is omnipotent surely it is wrong to say God, "can't do" anything?
Believer: But stopping all men from perishing and giving all men the choice to perish isn't logically possible.
Skeptic: Ironic you should bring up the issue of logical possibilities (three words come to mind, Pot Kettle and Black) ...
But isn't the whole idea of an omnipotent God the point that he isn't confined by human limits of logic of possibility?
God cannot do both because it's against his nature. God stated from the beginning that if Mankind chose to disobey, there would be consequences. Backing out of that statement and saving all of mankind would make him a liar.
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