18 December 2006

Where does evil come from?

Behold, this evil is of the Lord. 2 Kings 6:33

As I pointed out in my last post, evil spirits (according to the Bible, anyway) usually come from God (not Satan).

But what about evil itself? Where does it come from?

Here is the Bible's answer.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

The Bible tells us that God is the proud creator of everything evil. So whenever and wherever you find evil, you can be sure that God is its source.

Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6

28 comments:

Jason said...

For anything to exist, God must be at the source. Nothing can exist if He didn't create it. To say that God is the proud creator of evil as a means to make a point without also admitting He's the proud creator of everything good seems a bit skewed.

But being the creator of something doesn't mean every occurance of the created is the fault of the creator. For example, in Genesis 6:5, we're told that God saw that the hearts of man was only "evil continually". The Flood was a means to purge this evil. And then for the sake of Noah, He says in Genesis 8:21 that He knows the "imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth,,," Who's fault is it that man is evil? No one but man himself.

Paul speaks about this problem in Romans 7. The sin that proceeds out of his body is never once blamed on the Creator but instead on his own nature. Ths speaks volumes when we consider how evil spreads and multiplies:

Romans 7:2121 "...when I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin..."

It's difficult to argue Scripture. God is certainly the creator of evil but God is not the one at fault for the evil proceeding out of man's hearts and minds.

Ecc 7:14 "When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider: God has made the one as well as the other..."

Umaga said...

interesting blog. I'll definitely visit again...

jake3988 said...

"But being the creator of something doesn't mean every occurance of the created is the fault of the creator"


True. But it IS the fault of God.

Why? Because according to Christians their god is omnipotent. Therefore, he KNEW what would happen before he made it.

Either he's not omnipotent or he's responsible for all the evil of mankind.

He could have simply created an evilless povertyless world. But did he? Nope. All his fault.

Jason said...

This is a classic misunderstanding of an all-knowing God. Just because God KNOWS something is going to happen doesn't mean He's the CAUSE of it. The two are vastly different. Genesis 8 and Romans 7 say as much.

If you KNOW your child is going to one day put his hand on the stove, when that time finally comes, you're not the one who CAUSED him to do it. This is all about freewill and accepting personal responsibility, something no one wants to do today (hence the creation of the devil).

God created evil but He's not the one who MAKES people do evil things. He absolutely could have created a perfect world with no chance of poverty, sickness, etc. but if He had done so, people would have no use for a God or for salvation.

It all comes back to figuring out who is truly at fault for the evil in the world: God or man. If God is to blame than we're all robots because we have no freewill. If you think man is to blame, then you're saying we have the freewill to do either good or bad and that the decision rests with us.

jake3988 said...

"If you KNOW your child is going to one day put his hand on the stove, when that time finally comes, you're not the one who CAUSED him to do it."


If I knew my child was going to burn his hand off, I'd do the smart thing and you know, STOP it?

Come on.


God is an all-powerful god at least, according to Christians. So, even if he didn't cause evil (Even though it says right there crystal clear he DID) he has the ABILITY to vanquish it. He has the ability to end poverty, the ability to vanquish evil, the ability to just accept everyone.


And yet... he chooses not to accept these things.




The whole hell argument is stupid.

Imagine Nebukenezzar(sp?) the king burning people alive in a fire.

Now suppose that King Neb told everyone they can avoid being thrown in a fire if they bow down and worship him.

Do we jump up and down and claim what an awesome guy King Neb is for preventing us from being burned in the fire for worshiping him? I'd surely hope not.

Neither should God.

jake3988 said...

"God created evil but He's not the one who MAKES people do evil things. He absolutely could have created a perfect world with no chance of poverty, sickness, etc. but if He had done so, people would have no use for a God or for salvation."


So being a screwed up demented jealous maniac makes you a GOOD person? When did that start happening?

Jealousy and Greed are both deadly sins for a reason. they're not a good traits to have.


God: "I could create a world free of poverty, free of sin, free of evil. But... no one would worship me or need me. So to fulfill my narcissistic self-loathing ways I'll create a world where hundreds of thousands of people die of starvation everyday. Then people will need me!"

Jason said...

You missed the point of my analogy. God knowing that something is going to happen doesn’t mean He’s the one causing it to happen. Us knowing something is going to happen to our child doesn’t mean we’re the cause of the accident.

Absolutely God could end poverty, etc. But once again, these things are caused by mankind. Mankind takes responsibility for the things he does. A company pumps tons of toxic chemicals into the environment. The ozone layer is affected and global warming ensues. Who’s fault is this: God or man? You decide to cheat on your wife. She finds out and leaves you, taking your kids and house. Who's fault: Yours or God? A government of an African country demolishes low-cost housing for the homeless, leaving them with no where to go. Who's fault: Government or God?

Your sense of “fairness” is rather skewed. Who forced Adam and Eve to sin? God? No. Adam and Eve had absolute freewill to do what they wanted. They CHOSE to disobey God. Punishment ensued. Tell me, do you think there’s any reason why poverty still exists in the world today? The US military budget for 2007 is $470 billion. The world’s military expenditures in 2006 were just under $1 trillion. Imagine what a fraction of this could do for the homeless situation in North America alone. Corrupt governments, power-hungry warlords, arms dealers, the ignorant and greedy general public, the list goes on and on and on. We’ve created our own problems in this world and even though we have the ability to correct our errors, we don’t and instead blame God for allowing us to continue to do these bad things. This isn’t just flawed logic, it’s a spoiled child mentality. I made a mistake but it’s your fault. How sad.

God accepts those who accept Him. We all have the power and freewill to do so but most choose not to. What then does God “owe” those people who deny His existence?

Why is the hell argument stupid? Provide verses showing where God sent people to hell or promises to send people to hell for not worshiping Him. Back your opinion up with something tangible.

Scripture makes it abundantly clear that the ‘punishment’ of the wicked is to die, never to be resurrected. This is the natural extension of “dust to dust” in Genesis 2:7. Life and death are simplistically laid out in Genesis. Does God include eternal suffering as a punishment for the wicked?

jake3988 said...

Your sense of “fairness” is rather skewed. Who forced Adam and Eve to sin? God? No. Adam and Eve had absolute freewill to do what they wanted. They CHOSE to disobey God. Punishment ensued.



If you're telling me that punishing all of mankind for picking an apple is justified, you need to seriously visit a mental institution.

You also just said that poverty is perfectly within the realm of possibility for god to cure. He doesn't.



Let's say there's a crime going to happen. I know about this crime and I choose to let it happen because I'm too lazy to stop it. In the United States this is a CRIME in and of itself.

This is no different with an all-powerful (as you say) god. He has the POWER to end poverty or hell, he HAD the power to create a world justifiably that never had poverty and never would have poverty. He chooses to sit back and do nothing. Therefore, he is responsible.



'Provide verses showing where God sent people to hell or promises to send people to hell for not worshiping Him'


HAHAHAHAHA. You need to open a bible my friend. Please. For the love of god, open a bible. Everyone who believes in him and worships goes to heaven. Everyone who doesn't, goes to hell. Hell, you said it yourself.

But that doesn't refute my argument either. You just detour into something else entirely.

Jason said...

First of all, how do you know it was an apple?
Second of all, it doesn’t matter if we think the punishment fits the crime. The simple fact of the matter is that Adam & Eve broke a direct commandment from God. Cause and effect, my friend.

You think God is responsible for the evil out there only because you don’t want to take responsibility for your own actions. Why do you think the devil was conjured up in the first place? People wanted a scapegoat for all the bad things in their life instead of taking responsibility themselves.

What is it we are really doing when we require God to remove suffering? Are we not asking that God should (a) suspend natural law, (b) divert the consequences of heredity, and (c) turn aside the effects of man's inhumanity to man? Have we the right to expect God to save men from the consequences of human acts? Would it be a moral universe if He did? How would you expect people to learn from the consequence of their actions if they were never permitted to fulfill the action? Underlying all the loose thinking on this subject is one basic assumption: suffering is evil in itself. It is this belief that suffering is the essential evil that lies at the root of Buddhism. The Bible view is radically different: suffering is not evil in itself, but a symptom of a deeper evil. Scripture portrays suffering as a consequence of sin: not necessarily the sin of the individual who suffers, but sin in the history of man and in human society. Whether or not we think this is “fair” is of no consequence. It is what it is. Whether God could have created another world where we were all robots who did nothing but good and nice things is also of no consequence. This is the world He’s created, this is the world we live in, and that’s about all there is to it.

I wonder, at what level do you actually blame mankind for bad stuff? Petty theft? Lying? Cheating? Speeding? Tax evasion? Maybe it’s only those big issues beyond your control (the which you aren’t doing anything to help stop) where you consider it’s God’s fault. When you do something wrong, do you blame God for not stopping you? When you do something good, who do you thank, yourself or God? If you were on the stand in a court of law for murdering someone, I wonder if the “God allowed me to do it” defense would hold up…?

I need to open a Bible? Okay. Hold on a sec……okay…done. Now, provide verses showing where God sent people to hell or promises to send people to hell for not worshiping Him. You give me verses, I’ll follow along. Everyone who believes in God goes to heaven? Hm, well, the Bible I’ve just opened says that no man has ascended to heaven (John 3:13) and no one has seen God (John 1:18) and no one has immortality except God, and then there all the dust to dust verses (Gen 2:7), the single judgment verses (Acts 17:31) and the dozens of “good” people who simply died at the end of their life instead of heading up to heavenly bliss (Acts 2:34). So...maybe we’re reading from different Bibles…? This damn confusing Bible!!!

And what argument wasn’t refuted? I’m don’t mean to detour so just repost your point.

Jason said...

You've detoured into silence :)

Anonymous said...

Jason:

It was fruit. When God created mankind he made mankind innocent and unknowing of evil. Mankind, although innocent and without evil, still committed an evil act. That alone is absurd.

If you are not evil, and you have know knowledge of good and evil, how can you do something evil?

But let's not stop here. there's much more we can cover on this subject.

After his innocent subjects eat from the fruit he curses them and the rest of mankind to suffer.

You say mankind brought this on themselves because God layed the ground rules and adam and eve broke them.

God didn't tell them they'd suffer, he just said they'd die. They didn't die, they survived. That alone doesnt sit well with me, never did. I was in denial when I was a "christian" though (much like you)

Anywho, the punishment was far worse then just "death" alone, and the snake tricked eve. God allowed a snake to trick Eve into eating the fruit. The snake was way smarter than eve, and eve being an innocent, curious, and niave creature committed a crime without even knowing right from wrong.

Get a couple of innocent naive humans, and tell them not to eat fruit from a tree, then mix in a snake with much more knowledge, extremely cunning and you can put the two and two together. You don't have to be ALL-KNOWING to see what's going to happen: Of course they'll eat the fruit!

Condemn everyone and offer salvation thousands of years later after causing much death and destruction. Say you're coming back "soon" or "quickly" (greek word says both) and not arrive for 2,000 years.. what the fuck do you expect?

This is rediculious, you are rediculious, and I dont hate you but I hate your sins against humanity. Your sin is that you choose to blindly believe in something without any validation, without any reason, and because your mommy and daddy told you to do so. People like you do not think for themselves and are not instructed to either (keep your thoughts captive, remember?)

You're not alone Jason, you have muslims and jews who can be equally if not even more fanatical about their own teachings. You could debate with them till the cows come home as well. All the while choosing to believe your doctrine because you were TOLD TO DO SO.. Congratulations...

Jason said...

That’s right, it was a fruit. Not an apple. This is the difference between reading the Bible for yourself vs. regurgitating public opinion.

Adam & Eve died. The length of time this took to happen is of no consequence. The punishment was fulfilled. You're looking for an argument that doesn't exist.

Explain how A & E’s punishment and suffering is worse then death. Working to get food out of the ground is worse then death?

Here’s this “God allowed” thing again… Maybe God should have stuffed cotton into Eve’s ears so she wouldn’t have to hear the snake. Maybe God shouldn’t have created women. Maybe God shouldn’t have created snakes. Maybe God should have avoided the whole situation by actually creating nothing at all. It’s not an argument that works with me. What’s done is done. Mankind takes full responsibility for breaking God’s commandments.

The snake was “way smarter” then Eve? In my Bible, it says the snake was more “subtle” (or ‘crafty’). What does yours say? I can’t find that “the snake was more knowledgeable then humans” bit… Creepy guys in cars offering candy to little kids are crafty people but the little kids also know that their parents warned them not to take the candy or there’ll be trouble. A child knows the difference between right and wrong but a child isn’t cursed with the awareness/knowledge that his nature and desires are often in conflict with his parent’s/God’s will. Consider also nakedness, something that holds no relevance or meaning to a child. But with age and understanding, nakedness takes on a whole new meaning. Adam & Eve’s transition from “child” to “adult” is clearly shown in Genesis.

You’ll be relieved to know that salvation was offered long before Jesus. Abraham, Moses, David, the list is a long one. With this in mind, what I think is ridiculous is you claim to know enough about the Bible to prove it wrong and yet you make statements suggesting quite the opposite is true. No references, no facts to back up your points, just the same old angry atheist rhetoric directed at someone who for some reason threatens his sense of security. Whatever I want to believe shouldn’t cause you grief. I’m entitled to defend my faith, you’re entitled to defend your lack of the same. It’s all good.

And if you want to discuss doctrine, I’d be more then happy to do so. The Bible does a great job of explaining itself. I’ll give you verses, offer my understanding of them in relation to other verses, you can read them and figure it out for yourself, and then come to same conclusions I have (even without mommy and daddy holding your hand!!).

“Sins against humanity”? Such drama ☺

rufusdire said...

Hi Jason,

I've just stumbled upon these boards, I hope you're still reading. I promise I won't insult, attack or engage in any internet drama. I'd like to pose a question to you, and of course anybody else reading along. There's been alot of talk about good and evil, right and wrong, sin and salvation, etc. So here's my question:

Is morality (that which is good, right, un-sinful, etc.) defined exclusively by the will of God or does it have intrinsic value regardless of whether or not there even is a god? In other words, does God DECIDE what is good or does he simply KNOW what is good?

Sean

veildarknight said...

The old DCT test? I was wondering if perhaps this is a better question than "is God is the root of evil?" question. What I wonder is this.
P1.God is onipotent: all powerfull; Omnipresient: knows everything ever.
P2. God has a devine plan for the Universe and all things opperate occording to this devine plan. In the end god will bring heaven to earth, and some believe he will ressurrect all the loyal dead who didn't make it to heaven, and the rest will burn in a lake of fire for all eternity with the devil and other evils, and there will be happyness and life forever after.
P3. God gives man free will, as in the ability to chose good action or evil action.
Q1. If God knows whats going to happen when he puts his plans into motion, can man really have a free will? Arent the sinners destined to be sinners? So that basicly destroys the Idea that Adam or Eve or anyone else in the Bible sinned against God, because wasn't it all in the script in the first place? Or is God's Devine plan more like "Devine Guidlines of what I want, by God"?

xlapus said...

How would you expect people to learn from the consequence of their actions if they were never permitted to fulfill the action?

This has probably been gone over, but I wanted to post on it before I go to bed and I didn't have time to read the entire page.

Did it ever occur to anyone that Adam and Eve would have had no chances to learn cause and effect? They had no clue what disobeying god's commands would bring about. They COULDN'T have even know what death was, so god's warning that eating of the tree would surely cause death was an empty warning.

Jeff said...

I think your image of the Christian God is too small, and far too limiting. This is a very brief explanation, and so, it encourages your own thought, but I hope you choose to read and consider it, and challenge you to poke as many holes as possible in it. Filling these holes is what solidifies the truth.

First, the nature of good and evil as equals or adversaries in the universe seems skewed. If I choose to murder someone out of spite, or randomness, surly you would say I was evil. But I would not make this decision if I did not experience some good, though extremly perverse or 'unnatural', from this action. It could have given me a rush of adrenaline, or perhaps is somehow tied to my sexual nature. As sadistic as my motivations are, I am still seeking some form of good unto myself. No matter what we do, we cannot help ourselves from seeking good, or the concept of good, though our choices and the way we pursue this good is bad. If this is true, the universe is not a balance of good and evil surly, but truly depends on good, and evil is simply in existence. Good is absolutely dominant. Evil is more or less the improper pursuit of good. We cannot be purely evil, or even theorize about this, no matter how much evil we participate in, we must seek a form of good. This certainly defends the Christian view in that all things God created are good. Evil, therefore, cannot exist without good, but it is not good itself. Good can clearly exist without evil, and so, in this place, we have God. His existence is a good of purity which we can not even begin to comprehend as a mere flawed creation, we are given a taste, and we cannot digest it. Choice was the creation of God, choice created for relationship to exist, choice to create true love. I think that we are all in agreement that love in the emotional sense of the word and not the erotic sense, cannot be forced or taken or bought. Love, or at least as much of love as we can experience, can only be given, out of choice, and even as we experience it, we are confused by it. This was God's gift to man, and perhaps part of what is meant by 'he created us in his image', but this gift had a consequence, and that consequence was choice. You must choose love. And so in giving us this choice, that opened the door for choosing adversely. We introduced the adverse choice, our own evil nature, when we chose against God. He did not create evil, and by his very nature could not create evil. He created choice. And from choice came a contrast, a contrast which existed in creation before humans experienced it when Lucifer fell. I don't find these things simple to understand, and I think that we were barely given enough capacity to comprehend it, but it seems that evil was simply an opportunity cost, not a product that He has chosen to manufacture. If God thinks that this cost is worth its return on investment, and he certainly does if you read the Christian bible, then how much more interesting is it that evil, even in its purest form still desires good.

andrew said...

I just found this blog and I'm glad I did. I'm 2 years into my faith in Jesus Christ. And I have a hunger for the knowledge of God. It can be very hard to satisfy with all of the disinformation buzzing around. Jeff -I appreciate your last comment on evil. I just read "The Language of God", by the geneticist Frances Collins. If you have any other recommendations, please let me know.

Jeff said...

Andrew -- Not sure of how else to contact you so I will just append to this post. Its hard for me to recommend a specific book without knowing exactly what your current struggles or interests are, and I am certainly not a well read Christian scholar by any means. I have found, however, that there is a consistent trend amongst modern Christians; that most people have a fear of knowledge in the church. We have somehow come to feel that questioning, researching, or confirming our faith is unacceptable. Fortunately, the truth is the exact opposite! God desires us to seek Him with all our heart, soul and MIND. That said, I think that one of the most beneficial books for any Christian to read that drives this point home is "Love Your God With All Your Mind" by J.P. Moreland. If you have not read it, I would really encourage you to, regardless of where exactly you are in your faith. It has been a fundamental resource for me in building a faith that I can stand on, without fear of being questioned. Hope this turns out to be worthwhile for you! --Jeff

daniel said...

I have read this discussion very intimately, and i cannot but see the err in the arguments against Christianity...

If you are arguing against God, you cannot win. if you are going to even engage such an argument, you must realize that you acknowledge the claims of the opposition, thereby knowing that you are arguing against a being that has claimed to have all knowledge and power, and has decided to give you the ability to argue against him. Now keep in mind i said GOD, not man.

It is not my desire to create a hostile environment, i will not argue with anyone. i will however have a conversational study of theology and ones interaction with it.

I will simply offer up my sincere faith open to question and testing for all who desire to do such, it is not my intent to convert or argue, simply to have a civilized conversation.

with that being said, I must say that a true key point for the defense of Christianity and the account of Adam and Eve has not been fully explored, it is this:

"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him." By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.We love because he first loved us.

1 John 4:15-19 ESV


There is a lot here so please allow me to break down my understanding of what this tells us.


It starts by simply telling us that If we "willfully" accept/confess that Jesus is the son of God, that we have a relationship between us.

It provides proof that Jesus role was to restore the ideal relationship between man and the Father, as well as provide an example of the conduct we can execute within a restored relationship with a Holy God

from there, we grow in our knowledge of his character, and that His character is loving, for he is Love.

Keep in mind that when someone or something is defined as something, they are by definition not the antonym...i.e. if something is good, by definition, it cannot be bad.

In the case of God, if we hold this to be true then we have much to gain, and be hopeful for. If God is Loving in his nature, then all of His conduct will be for the expansion of that love. (His conduct, not all of mankind's)

for a definition of love let us look to 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Ok...im expecting arguments from that one, but we will continue...

If love is all of these things, and God is love, then surely God is all of these things...

It seems to me that the character of this God is something that I would personally want to interact with

so the key point in which i wanted to explain is this, God loves, he loves so much that he offers people a choice. He is sensitive to the fact that he is God, and we are not. Which is why we must not force our beliefs upon anyone, but let them come to the conclusions they will, and love them regardless with the same characteristics as the God in which we believe whose image we were created

but back to having a choice, can you really love someone selflessly if you do not give them a choice. understanding that they are fully aware of the consequences be they positive or negative.

Let us propose that one was to have 15 children, and they knew that the first 14 would hate them, curse their name and for all intensive purposes make their life unpleasant, but the 15th child, would love you, would honor you, and would live to have a beautiful relationship with you, the rule is that you could not get to the last unless you genuinely loved the first 14 with all that you are. Would it be an honorable thing for this one to endure the first 14 children in order to have the joy of the last, or would this one be better off not having children in the first place, and take away the children's choice to love and honor them, never giving them life, and never providing them with the option to choose how they would conduct themselves?

however you agree or find fault with this analogy is fine by me, but the point im tying to make is this, that we must always recognize the choices and opportunity we have, as well as the authority we have to conduct ourselves in either a positive or negative light.

Jake K├╝hler said...

Good grief,

God gave man free will, People are man in the image and likeness of God, but people are not perfect. We do stupid stuff. Also, evil is the absence of good. Think on that a bit then shoot me a reply.

Jake

paulat33 said...

Amos 9:4 And though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I command the sword, and it shall slay them: and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good.

barry said...

Before the beginning there was a Cause. The only purpose of the cause was to create an effect.

In the beginning was a decision and the decision was to BE.

The first act odf beingness is to assume a point of view.

Presto ..now we have I AM and an infinite number of points of view (me's)

So you see how the purpose of I Am (GOD) has been carried out.

End of story

Joni said...

All of you speak as if there was a God. Where is this God of yours hiding?

Mike said...

Joni, Where have you looked?

I only say that because in order to say that he is hiding and doesn't exist it means that someone has looked everywhere possible in the universe to find him.

For example, I could make the statement that there are no spiders in this room. Unfortunately I have not crawled under everything and into all the cracks and crevices. Now i can with all assurity say that there are not any Gigantic spiders in the room. However, as I recall the universe is a pretty big place. Wether or not there are any spiders out there is something I haven't found out about currently.

On a side note, death does not only represent physical death you guys should understand.

I have come to the conclusion that if I have engaged in a relationship with another person i have effectively told that person everything that they need to do in order to maintain that status of love and appreciation with me for all intensive matters or at least for the point of this discussion. As if someone is in love with someone else they don't intentionally sabotage that, unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and our own comfort points typically interfere with this utopian ideology.

That person will break my heart I can say with all assurity even though I have never wanted them to do so. So i'll make a robot, or i'll get a dog. I believe that telling the dog everything that it has to do in order not to upset me will work right? Well chances are that isn't gonna happen either, the robot probably will, if it was programmed correctly and has no mechanical defects. I still know, that even though the dog has driven me (me = imperfect, please remember) to the point of wanting to get rid of it especially when i step in a big mess before i've had coffee in the morning, I will be much happier to see the dog looking at me in adoration with tail wagging frantically as I pet it than a similar case with the robot.

Mike said...

Oh a great book to read would be new evidence that demands a verdict by Josh Mcdowell. It's more of a reference book, not necessarily a good sit down and try to read through in a day.

isaac said...

Hello folks. My comment is in regard to the original post quoting from kings. The KJV was translated from minimal manuscripts and was done 400 years ago. It is not the best translation for the use of "evil" in many OT references. The accurate translation in many cases and in this case is "calamity". Which is to say god brings judgement upon folks. Philosophically you will have to study various ideas about whether god had to have created evil or just it's potential and so on. But regarding the scriptures there are no verses that say god created moral evil as the KJV seemed to suggest. Many blessings.

dcSaint said...

God has created a world without sin.
Read the last chapters of the Revelation.
He is testing our hearts now to see if we are suitable to dwell there. We all fail the test so He provided a way through His Holy Son Jesus for us to receivec His Holy nature and have our sinful nature removed.
We have to confess our sins (Agree with His Judgment) and receive His Mercy and Grace.
Then we are ready to come into the Father's House New Heaven and Earth)
I hope I see you there - God Bless You

Donald Baker said...

Let's also remember that God isn't under the same law as we are. If a parent tells their child not to cross the street but the parent crosses the street to get the mail, the child can't point it's finger at the parent and call them unjust, because that parent is not under the same law as the child.

Let's also remember that what is evil from our perspective is not evil by God solely because of His purpose behind it. Examples of this are Joseph being sold into the slavery. Evil from the brothers but righteous from God. Everything that God does is for His purpose, and if God chooses to use evil for His purpose, man (being the child) cannot point to the Creator and call Him unjust. I'm thankful for the evil that was done to Jesus on the cross because it saved my soul from my own sin.

If you're calling God evil and putting "fault" on Him, you need to consider your own salvation. And for those who may be reading this and are born again, trusting in God's righteousness and believing that He has a purpose in everything He does will take loads off your mind when you believe that all things work for your good.

I find much more comfort in believing that God can use Satan for His own purpose rather than letting Satan win some and work around it.