19 May 2010

It's Draw Muhammad Day!

Since I'm not much of an artist, I thought I'd post this video from the Amazing Atheist. I think he's really captured the essence of Muhammad (peanut butter and jelly be upon him) in his drawing.

71 comments:

psybermonkey said...

Hurray! Mine took me a few hours but I guess that's what happens when you're a skilled art major: http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9934/muhammadk.jpg

skanksta said...

Gotta love the ad across the banner - meet Muslim singles - don't suppose the vid would be the best move on a first date, lol !

Eiman Khawaja said...

I feel awful and insulted this day.U guys seem to be having with all that and i know u wouldn'd give a damn to my feelings but still u need to know how i feel .I wonder how can be one be happy by making others unhappy.Islam may be a stupid Arabic tale to someone and muhammad a fake figure but for me they r my life.

Ryan W. said...

Eiman:

Why do you feel insulted?

I hope I speak for everyone when I say that we support your right to believe whatever you want. In return, you should not expect us to hold your beliefs with the same reverence you do.

It's not about making people unhappy; on the contrary, it's to show a growing global theocracy movement that they hold no power over us. Do you want to be told what to believe or come to those beliefs on your own terms?

Word Verification: stalin.

srizals said...

You see, what you are doing only hurt some Muslims, those who do not believe that stupidity is what stupid people are so clever of doing.

Go ahead, show to the rest of the world how clever you are in dealing with a threat that you can't even comprehend. You are so afraid of us. It shows.

You have my sympathy. For being afraid out of ignorance.

To the rest of the Muslims. Don't be tempted on such a childish act of the ignorant. They'll get what they deserved.

This is the proof needed by so many of what these people are really made of. Dwindling of self respect and comprehension. Forever caught in the endless circle of stupidity.

They don't deserve our anger. A complete empty self that seek fun in the only way that they know. By being ignorant. Read up the verses of Al Quran in dealing with the ignorant. Save your energy. They are not worth it. Deal with these cowards with your mighty pen. They have no point of standing.

TaoCat said...

srizals said...
"You see, what you are doing only hurt some Muslims, those who do not believe that stupidity is what stupid people are so clever of doing."

Wow. That actually hurt. I realize English may not be your first language, but you still might try and put a point in your tirades somewhere, one that actually makes sense.

"To the rest of the Muslims. Don't be tempted on such a childish act of the ignorant. They'll get what they deserved."

Ahh, the thinly veiled threat. Muslims do have such a thing for veils..

srizals said...

Read carefully between the lines TaoCat. Our different backgrounds and beliefs would of course influence our understanding of what we're reading. English or not. But I guess, intellectuality does shows.

Just for you TaoCat, I'll repeat myself.

"Stupidity is what stupid people are so clever of doing."

"They'll get what they deserved" means, the belief that all good and bad have consequences in this life and the afterlife. It is known as accountability to you. So I'm asking some easily intimidated Muslims not to hurt those who hurt them. It's not worth it. Some people are easily intimidated, some are not. Regardless of religions, their IQ and EQ. It has to do with what exist in all of us. Human nature.

All the good and the bad will get what they deserved for eternity in the afterlife. Since you don't believe a Muslim faith, why should you see it as a threat? Something that you don't believe in can't possibly do anything bad to you, right? Chill out.

"To the rest of the Muslims. Don't be tempted on such a childish act of the ignorant".

Where's the threat there?

busterggi said...

Why is Muhammad always depicted with long hair & a beard? Jesus & Yahweh too for that matter?

How do we know that gods aren't bald?

Person0123452 said...

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9454/mohammed.jpg

Here's my effort (I suck at art).

Also, we do it because we can, because we want to, and you have no right to tell us we can't.

psybermonkey said...

Exactly Person. Furthermore, there wouldn't be such a day to begin with if Muslims weren't so violent and intolerant towards such a harmless act. It's not meant to insult Muslims but to voice against their absurd ideology.

Erik said...

If Muslims asked us not to draw Muhammad, no problem. Instead, you demand we don't draw Muhammad, and burn our flags and threaten our people if you do. So suck it up!

srizals said...

psybermonkey said,
"Muslims' absurd ideology", please define. Regarding what?

Person0123452 said,
'Also, we do it because we can, because we want to, and you have no right to tell us we can't'.

You have a very peculiar view of a person. I surely hope that when someone did something annoying to you or did bad things to you, you'll remember what you have said here.

psybermonkey said...

srizals, by absurd ideology I mean (among other things) the belief that it is ok to violently demand and threaten those who use their freedom of speech in regards to Islam. We're a culture that doesn't appreciate being told what to do, especially when the people telling us what to do are using threats instead of giving us a real reason not to do a thing.

Like Erik said, "If Muslims asked us not to draw Muhammad, no problem. Instead, you demand we don't draw Muhammad, and burn our flags and threaten our people if you do. So suck it up!"

Person0123452 said...

srizals, as a human being, if I am told I cannot do something that the only way it hurts someone is if they choose themselves to look at it, and they threaten to kill people who do it for other reasons for example comedy or informative reasons, I am bound to say "fuck you, I can" then to prove it I will do it.

Are you muslim? What if I told you you couldn't worship your fake god because it offends me. Would you a. say "ok, I won't" or would you carry on doing it anyway? I am against telling muslims that they can't wear certain religious clothes. Because no-one else (including someone's husband and the government) has any right to tell someone what to wear. I'd encourage a mass wearing of the banned item in protest. Wouldn't you, if you were banned from wearing a certain religious symbol?

The exact same thing applies here, you have no right to tell me what I can and can't draw, so if people recieve death threats and are actually killed for what they draw then we will protest by saying "you can't do that", and I will join that protest. If you are really offended then it is pretty common sense not to click on something that says "draw mohammed day".

skanksta said...

Person nailed it.

srizals said...

Blogger psybermonkey said...

"We're a culture that doesn't appreciate being told what to do"

I know, you would very much like to be respected and appreciated for your existence, treated as an intelligent human being that you are, but what about the Muslims, are they not as the same as you? Are you above them?

If you knew something is offensive to someone, would you glaringly provoke him in the first place just to show that you can do it? Wouldn't you think it's quite snobbish?

You never met Muhammad nor know anything about him, so why making fun of him? If you don't like how certain Muslims are behaving, instead you should be drawing and making fun of the Muslims that annoyed you.

You said you can do whatever you want, and yet you cannot appreciate what the Muslims were doing in respond to your first bullet. They burn your flag, and it is very offensive to you. No, they won't 'draw' back to you, they can't. They are forbidden to make fun of others' belief and god. Please note that it was your culture that steps on the foot of other culture first. Surely you can't expect they would not do anything. Look at you, you did something that you said as a respond to Muslims' demand.

Your culture has failed to respect other culture, so don't act so baffled when you pissed off somebody from different culture.

Why did you do it in the first place? Is it just plain hatred, or simply a provocative measure? If you said that it's your right to do anything as a free person, expect some fanatics to think the same. They think they have the right to threaten and kill such a person that defiles something that they considered as holy and precious. Don't you think that they are just like you? You and they are free to do whatever that suits you.

Muslims on the other hand are being violently killed in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. They are being marginalized in other country, especially in the West. So you can guess why they resent you guys so much. The ones that failed to show any respect towards others. I won't over generalize all Westerners as you guys. People are just so different from one another.

And yet, you guys are living in a dream world, completely oblivious why some Muslims, are so easily provoked. If you have been witnessing your loved ones being brutally killed, your country being invaded, even a stupid cartoon would be seen as an act of arrogance.

Person0123452 said...
"What if I told you, you couldn't worship your fake god because it offends me"

I didn't know that your belief requires you to mock and made fun of other belief in order to feel right. The common sense is respect others, and they will respect you.

Personally, I don't think that those who like to insult others to make a point deserved to be kill. They are just plainly not worth dying for.

TaoCat said...

Oh, are the poor muslims being treated with something less than respect? Respect is earned. When I can go to a muslim country and express my beliefs freely, maybe then I will grant your religion some respect. When sharia isn't used to oppress women (and child brides) then perhaps your faith will be granted more respect.

As to the war, I hate innocents being killed regardless of their religion. But ideological forces on both sides foster this sort of callus hatred. That is why blogs like this are around-showing that all religious dogma (you may notice he also mocks christianity, etc.) is hazardous to your thinking and your health.

srizals said...

You are one arrogant cat, TaoCat. But at least, you are not a pure hater that thrives on the miseries of man.

Respect is earned, true, but nonetheless, the inability to respect and understand what is sacred to someone else is considered as an inconsiderate gesture, a characteristic of the oppressor and destroyer of mankind.

You have overgeneralized all Muslims to be radical and docile in nature for the actions of the few. I wonder if you can accept this statement, most of the brutalities and killings were done by the atheists throughout history and so, all atheists are naturally destructive and oppressive when they were in power, when they are not, they are simply irritating.

The reason that made those Muslims ran berserk in the first place never get any mention in the West. They were just brushed aside as loons that hate the freedom of the West.

Mao, Pol Pot and Stalin if I recalled correctly do have something in common. They see religion as a source of evil and backwardness, so they started a revolution to get rid of them and marked their actions in history. The genocide that was so horrible that none of the culprits were ever brought to justice.

World War 1 and 2 were not driven by Muslims. The only nation that used weapon of mass destruction on civilians was not a Muslim nation. The atrocities and terror inflicted upon nations and people at that time were governments that had the support of the majority of the people. Are there any similarities of what some Muslim fanatics are doing today?

You seem to have more concern on children marriages in certain Muslim countries rather than the paedophiles menace and sexual related problems in the West. Are those marriages as rampant as the sexual problems of exploiting children as young as a baby and women to the vilest way imaginable in the West? What say you?

Are you a Taoist or a follower of Nietzsche? Have you aborted your baby?

TaoCat said...

Overgeneralized? So I could go and advocate atheism in any muslim country? Care to name one?

As to atheists and communists, you might remember that I believe DOGMA to be the culprit, whatever fantasy system that spawns it. Musim countries have their own share of pedophiles, ethnic cleasings, etc. Trying to pretend this is simply a problem of the west is disingenuous at best.

As for irritating, you seem to have that covered all by yourself. Enjoy your fantasy.

Matthew Blanchette said...

And I... missed this.

Damn; I could've faced the ire of religious bigots everywhere, but nooooo -- I had to forget! :-(

Ah, well; you know what they say about the sword of the LORD... ;-)

srizals said...

Dogma? Funny one TaoCat. If you can prove that Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao, to name a few, were not atheists, sure, by all means. On top of that, prove that your craving for unlimited freedom is not destructive and suicidal. Prove that abortion did not kill. Do seek out who are the major paedophiles according to backgrounds and googled for it, their characteristics. You'll be surprise. Numbers and percentages TaoCat. They count. Bosnia, Myanmar and Albania are some recent memoirs of atheists' kindness and present to humanity.

Yes TaoCat, I agree with you, there are evil everywhere. We are humans and that what humans do. They erred from time to time. In Christianity, Islam and every religion, but they dare not say that they are right all the time and are or were representing their religion, most of them are misunderstanders of their faith, not like atheists, they say they are and were always right and never ask for forgiveness. Tell me TaoCat, have you ever taken an examination before? The percentages of your marks, they count. That was how you got your grades.

Do you still remember this famous phrase of a fairy tale TaoCat?

Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the dreadest of them all? As I recall, the atheists' mind, as they went down in history, a quite number of them of course, tend to be genocidal if not suicidal and are close to insanity. Are you sure that you really know about Atheism to be an atheist in the first place? Do you know Sade and Nietzsche? You seem to know Muhammad but I wonder do you know the atheists that had created your faith of unbelief?

psybermonkey said...

"who is the dreadest of them all? As I recall, the atheists' mind, as they went down in history, a quite number of them of course, tend to be genocidal if not suicidal and are close to insanity."

Ah, this old pathetic argument again. Can't say I'm surprised to see it coming from you.

Atheism is simply the non-acceptance to the claim that god exists. That's it. It says absolutely nothing about your morals as that is not the term is meant to provide any more than "non-stamp collector." Provide me evidence where the historical figures you mentioned killed IN THE NAME of atheism - just as religious people do. You can't because that wasn't their agenda. Atheism is nothing more than not accepting the claim of the existence of god and so you can be incredibly evil or incredibly moral. Even you cannot deny that you don't have to be religious to be moral - as its simply depends on being raised in an environment that teaches you to be so. A belief in an invisible sky god is not a required factor.

And are you going to tell me that the only reason why you (I assume) don't go out committing crimes and hurting people is because you believe god says its wrong? I think we both know that it goes much deeper than that. Take god away and you will still have the internal ability to sympathize and uphold the universal golden rule.

And I'd also like you to answer me this: if you foundation for ethics is constructed based on what god says...would pedophilia, rape, and anything else be OK if god came before you and said they were? If he makes the rules as to what is moral and what isn't, why wouldn't you advocate them?

That reminds me...Mohammad married his wife Aisha at 6 years old and had sex with her once she turned 9. Show me the handbook for atheists where such disgusting and horrible behavior is advocated. You won't because it's not a dogmatic religion (or a religion at all!). It's simply the non-acceptance of the claim for the existence of god. That's it. It doesn't even mean that you cannot be religious, such as the fact that many Buddhists are secular.

So what is our basis for morality then, if not god? Again, even those the term "atheist" isn't meant to say anything about one's morals any more than "non-stamp collector," you should look up secular humanism sometime. That is what I consider my basis. So long as you are raised to be moral and to exercise your built in ability to sympathize, as millions of atheists are, your god is not necessary any more than the billions of other proposed gods. After all, I think people came to the conclusion that it wasn't good to kill, rape, and steal from each other before the 10 commandments. You're silly stereotype had no leg to stand on.

Matthew Blanchette said...

Methinks srizals doth protest too much; he may be intelligent, but he's generalizing the whole of atheism into one amorphous blog for his own usage.

Seriously, would anyone in their right mind contemplate Stephen Fry and Richard Dawkins and subsequently lump them in with Stalin and Pol Pot?

srizals said...

What can I say Matthew, It’s just a day in the life. Without a good discussion our neurons won’t get enough exercise and would be dwindling, hopefully not in unbelief.

You jump too fast psybermonkey, tell me a paedophile that married his victim upon the approval of the parents and the society and no one, not even his dreaded nemesis at that time mocked him for it. You forgot the most important characteristics of paedophiles; they do not stop at one child and never marry one. A girl in Thailand, a nine year old gave birth to a baby in our own millennium; gay boy will never have such privilege. He is only entitled to Aids if not HIV. Tell me, have nature forgotten the rights of the misfits? Why is there so much diseases threatening the sexual deviated? Natural selection?

Yes, atheists are smartie pants. They wouldn’t dare to declare it to the world that they were doing all the hideous things in the name of atheism. They only say that they were getting rid of the plague that was polluting the society that made them render useless, uncreative and rebelling against them, religion. Tell me what religion had done the same? When did any religion exterminated atheists in a genocidal scale like what atheists did to the religious? In a very inhumane way for any humanistic view. Do you know the background of humanism? I mean where did it come from? I think all of us knew where secular came from and the reason behind it.

Sadist came from the name of a person, Sade. Go check him out. He used sex to defile religion, in the vilest manner he could think of, and he is a respected philosopher. And I don’t think he’s doing it in the name of any religion.

Are you now beginning to see what you guys are actually doing? You don’t like to be mocked at and overgeneralized and yet that is exactly what you are doing here.

Tell me psybermonkey, atheists seem to be championing the abortion cause. Any religious man and woman would say that it is bad, if not based on medical and crime’s perspective. What say you?

Humans are equipped with good and bad judgements. Religion perfected them.

psybermonkey said...

As I expected, you dodged my question. Out of the many theists I have asked, only one has ever had the courage to honestly give me an answer, so I kindly ask you to do the same. Otherwise I won't reply to anything you just said. Again, the question is this:

If your foundation for ethics is constructed based on what god says...would pedophilia, rape, and anything else be OK if god came before you and said that they were? If he makes the rules as to what is moral and what isn't, why wouldn't you uphold and practice them under his command?

srizals said...

I would call him a liar since it is unfitting for God to came down here and reveal Himself in order for His mere creation to believe in Him. It would be completely pathetic. Just like Dawkin had to argue with me, an average Joe and Dawkin is just a mere man, get my point? Is this a true question or a trick question? I’ll never know, since I cannot see what’s in your heart, only predict based on your writing, so I would take it for granted that it is a genuine question from you. There are things that in this life that are so powerful that we would melt upon seeing and having a contact with them. What more is God? He is the most powerful above all, incomparable with all that exist here in the universe. We can only see Him when we have undergone the second transformation of our existence here, just like before when we born. We were nothing then in this world, then we have become something and I don’t think Science would agree that after being something, we would just vanish into thin air, since it would contradict the basic of Science that everyone had learned at some times in their life. Just like a dead body and a life one. What is the difference? Can you tell? One heart has stop beating while the other keeps on beating. They look the same physically, but they are not. What made the heart beats a rhythm in the first place? Can I have a secular humanistic view on it right from its believer?

First of all you are asking the wrong question. If God kept on popping here and there and pleading helplessly to every man that didn’t believe in Him, what kind of God is that? It is unfitting for Him to do that. Instead, He sent messengers and prophets to all mankind. You have mistaken me as those who have taken the physical created being as god. God is unseen, just like your emotion; it lies deep beneath your heart and mind. When you manifest them physically, only then they are seen and understood by others.

God doesn’t need us. It is the other way around. What’s your explanation of the hollowness in us that we kept on trying to fill with theories and ideas in order to make sense of our existence? God has shown us a way to live accordingly. But this is of course unacceptable for those who have defied the nature of themselves.

You have confused the descriptions of god in the bible with the descriptions of God in the Koran. They are completely different. Unless you can point to a sin or immorality as to you were asked by God to be done by man in His service, I have to say your question is the most absurd question I’ve ever encountered and therefore the most precious trophies of them all. Thank you for asking me the question. Now, where’s the answer to my questions? Or are you trying to do what you have accused me of earlier?

Person0123452 said...

srizals
"Personally, I don't think that those who like to insult others to make a point deserved to be kill. They are just plainly not worth dying for."

That's fine, but some people do, which will automatically get a negative response, and it will achieve the exact opposite of what you want, especially when you can't carry out the threats.

TaoCat said...

Well, srizals since you only selectively choose questions to answer, (and then do so with a stunning degree of verbosity and semi-poetic double-speak)I doubt anybody is interested in answering your question. All you've done is reveal yourself to be terribly ignorant of atheism, of the arguments of secularism and all the while apparently believing yourself to be a wonderfully clever proselytizer of islam .

Much as I hate to disabuse you of the notion of your cleverness, I would suggest you do some more reading, outside of the Qur'an, and then come back.


"Just like Dawkin had to argue with me, an average Joe and Dawkin is just a mere man, get my point?"

You actually personally argued with Dawkins? I'd like to see some proof of that. Until then, Buh-bye!

psybermonkey said...

Your response is quite ironic. At one point you said that "He [God] is the most powerful above all, incomparable with all that exist here in the universe." You also said that if he did reveal himself to you and made such commandments, you would call him a liar because you believe that god wouldn't do such a thing.

Well, if you hold to your first statement above, who are you to judge god? Can't he do whatever he wants? Isn't he above you? Aside from the fact that he is recorded in scripture to have actually appeared "face to face" to people, why couldn't he do so if he chose to unto you? Doesn't he have the power to do so and prevent you from being overwhelmed? Also, I never said that he would appear to everyone to prove his existence...I merely asked what you would do if he appeared to you. For arguments sake, let's pretend that he came unto you as a new age prophet like he did Moses and others.

So here's the setup. One that you cannot get around:

1) God can do anything

2) You nor anyone else has the right to judge god due to his vast superiority and absolute authority

3)God makes the rules

4)If you believe that the previous circumstances above are true, answer the following question: If god came before you as he did unto others (and you KNOW without a DOUBT that it is your god) and commanded that it is now acceptable to rape and murder children and that you should go out and advocate others to do the same...would you? Again, if the first three circumstances are true, as you seem to believe, why wouldn't you do what god commands of you? why wouldn't they be acceptable?

Simply stating that it's "the wrong question" is a cowardice response given by those who do not want to admit to their imploding ideology.

Please, just answer the question. It's quite simple given the 4 circumstances I laid out for you. Prove to me that you have the courage to honestly do so, unlike most of the others.

srizals said...

Either my English is too bad for your Tao background or you have purposely unable to comprehend my simple writing. You can't read between the lines can you? You can't even understand the comparison that I've made. Sorry, I won't repeat myself this time. You have to read up on your own.

You are giving the atheist a bad name for not being able to understand a simple piece of writing. Go draw another cartoon. At least that is what you are good at. I hope.

psybermonkey said...

For some reason it seems my comment didn't get published so I'll repost it...

Your response is quite ironic. At one point you said that "He [God] is the most powerful above all, incomparable with all that exist here in the universe." You also said that if he did reveal himself to you and made such commandments, you would call him a liar because you believe that god wouldn't do such a thing.

Well, if you hold to your first statement above, who are you to judge god? Can't he do whatever he wants? Isn't he above you? Aside from the fact that he is recorded in scripture to have actually appeared "face to face" to people, why couldn't he do so if he chose to unto you? Doesn't he have the power to do so and prevent you from being overwhelmed? Also, I never said that he would appear to everyone to prove his existence...I merely asked what you would do if he appeared to you. For arguments sake, let's pretend that he came unto you as a new age prophet like he did Moses and others.

So here's the setup. One that you cannot get around:

1) God can do anything

2) You nor anyone else has the right to judge god due to his vast superiority and absolute authority

3)God makes the rules

4)If you believe that the previous circumstances above are true, answer the following question: If god came before you as he did unto others (and you KNOW without a DOUBT that it is your god) and commanded that it is now acceptable to rape and murder children and that you should go out and advocate others to do the same...would you? Again, if the first three circumstances are true, as you seem to believe, why wouldn't you do what god commands of you? why wouldn't they be acceptable?

Simply stating that it's "the wrong question" is a cowardice response given by those who do not want to admit to their imploding ideology.

Please, just answer the question. It's quite simple given the 4 circumstances I laid out for you. Prove to me that you have the courage to honestly do so, unlike most of the others.

Ritchie Annand said...

Communism was all about throwing off the chains of the working class. Marx thought religion was one of those chains used by the elite to enslave the working class.

Unfortunately, its proposals failed almost entirely to take into account human nature, and the layers of elite and oppression came back in a different form.

The result is a system that precious few Western atheists would propose, support or want to live under.

Atheists are also identified with supporting Darwinian evolution. That is a topic that was rewarded with imprisonment in the Soviet Union.

Communism uses atheism to further other goals. I would contrast that with the Islamic theocracies, which are direct implementations - with some variation - of Islam.

History aside, way to miss the point of the day, especially with accusations of being 'afraid out of ignorance', a fear of which you seem by your tone to be perversely proud.

This is solidarity in the face of assassination attempts and death threats. If we can do to the puffed-up hypersensitive self-styled mullahs issuing fatwas and bounties what Superman comics did to the KKK (via ridicule), even if by increments, then mission accomplished.

To the rest of the Muslims. Don't be tempted on such a childish act of the ignorant. They'll get what they deserved.

Oh, how generous of you. Other moral entities would wish restraint and/or understanding without the itinerant revenge fantasy. Even if you consider it the truth in your mythology, mentioning it as a reason for restraint reduces your magnanimity to near-zero.

TaoCat said...

srizals, you've convinced me! I see the light of Islam! Praise Allah! It all makes sense now!





Ha, only joking. You really don't have a clue, and are offering up the lamest of arguments as though they were glorious gems of wisdom. Seriously, you are just embarrassing yourself at this point. Islam=Fail.

srizals said...

Psybermonkey,

Such a question would not be considered as possible since according to my faith, God has informed us that He has only forbidden act of indecency and inappropriateness.

No Muslim can claim that God had revealed Himself to him nor appoint him as a new messenger nor even imagine that God would ask them to do bad things.

[5:3]
Prohibited for you are: carrion, blood, the flesh of swine, and those upon which (a name) other than that of Allah has been invoked (at the time of slaughter), animal killed by strangulation, or killed by a blow, or by a fall, or by goring, or that which is eaten by a beast unless you have properly slaughtered it; and that which has been slaughtered before the idols, and that you determine shares through the arrows. (All of) this is sin. Today those who disbelieve have lost all hope of (damaging) your faith. So, do not fear them, and fear Me. Today, I have perfected your religion for you, and have completed My blessing upon you, and chosen Islam as Dīn (religion and a way of life) for you. But whoever is compelled by extreme hunger, having no inclination towards sin, then Allah is Most-Forgiving, Very-Merciful.
[5:4]
They ask you as to what has been made lawful for them. Say, “Made lawful for you are good things, and (hunting through) birds and beasts of prey that you train, teaching them out of what Allah has taught you. So, eat of what they hold for you, and recite the name of Allah upon it.” Fear Allah. Surely, Allah is swift at reckoning.

It has been stated clearly in my prophet’s last sermon which I’ll be presenting here briefly.

“Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds”. …

…“Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you.

I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray”.

srizals said...

How could God be the one that ask his creation to do evil? It doesn’t make any sense at all. Your question is a probability that had not and would not occur.

[3:104]
There has to be a group of people from among you who call towards the good, and bid the Fair and forbid the Unfair. And it is these who are successful.
[3:105]
Do not be like those who became divided and fell into disputes after the clear signs had come to them. Those are the ones for whom there is a grave punishment
[3:106]
on a day when some faces shall turn bright, and some faces shall turn dark. As for those whose faces turn dark, (they shall be questioned): “Did you disbelieve after you had accepted the Faith? Now taste the punishment, because you used to disbelieve.”
[3:107]
As for those whose faces turn bright, they will rest in Allah’s mercy. They will live there forever.
[3:108]
These are the verses of Allah We recite to you with all veracity. Allah does not intend to do injustice to (anyone in) the worlds.

I know what you are trying to do psybermonkey. It won’t work on me. If I had said yes, you would say that it is the reason why you can’t accept the existence of a God, if I had said no, you would still say it as the logical reason for not accepting a God as a ruler of what is good and bad. Where’s my answers?

I'm not here to convince anyone TaoCat. It is beyond me.

srizals said...

The religion of God has been perfected. No other new revelation or prophet will be coming.

If you referred to the ancient people of Israel, they had demanded what modern day atheists had demanded, they would only believe in God that they can see and comprehend physically, even Moses was not able to see God, so how could I? They were very stubborn and liked to play around with their prophet like Steve has said, all the trouble and lengthy explanation about the description of a cow. What Steve has failed to understand, the incident showed how arrogant and reluctant they were in obeying their own prophet which had given the order from their Lord in the first place. And they are still making it a habit for us all to see regarding Palestine.

[5:12]
Allah has made the Children of Israel take a pledge. We appointed twelve chiefs from among them. Allah said, “I am surely with you. If you establish Salāh, and pay Zakāh, and believe in My Messengers, and hold them in reverence, and advance to Allah a goodly loan, I shall certainly write off your evil deeds, and I shall certainly admit you into Gardens beneath which rivers flow. So, whoever from you disbelieves after that has lost the straight path.”
[5:13]
So, because they broke their pledge, We cursed them and made their hearts hardened. They change words from their places, and they have overlooked a good deal of the Advice they were given. Every now and then you come across a certain treachery from all of them, except a few. So, forgive them and forego. Indeed, Allah loves those who are good in deeds.

You have to give an example of hideous and vile things that were commanded by God in the Koran as proof God would give an order to such a thing. Not making a probability out of impossibility.

Steve has managed to show how bad god is through the bible, I wonder if he could do that in the Koran. Every action has consequences. Everyone is well informed of this in a very clear manner. God didn't intend His creation to end up in Hell and suffer great mischief here and in the next life by guiding us clearly. It is our own arrogance that had blinded us.

[50:24]
(Then it will be said,) “Cast, (O two angels,) into Jahannam (Hell) every obstinate disbeliever
[50:25]
who used to prevent (others) from good (behavior), who transgressed all bounds, who cast doubts (in true faith),
[50:26]
who set up another god along with Allah. So cast him (O angels) in the painful punishment.”
[50:27]
His (evil) companion (i.e. the Satan) will say, “O our Lord, I did not cause him to rebel, but he was himself (involved) in straying far from the track.”
[50:28]
He (Allah) will say, “Do not quarrel before Me, while I had sent to you My threat well in advance.
[50:29]
The Word is not changed with Me, and I Am not so unjust to My servants.

srizals said...

Hadith Qudsi 17,
‘O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you. O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and you will not attain benefiting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more than a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other than that blame no one but himself.’” - related by Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah).

Psybermonkey, to look for something, you must have an idea and the right tools to look for it in the first place. Things near to us would be a good medium of comprehension. To understand certain things, we have to observe and compare them with one another. Since the dark nature of man exist in all of us, the quantity, frequency and the reason behind such equation should be taken into consideration in order to make sense of them.

Some say it is their right to do anything according to their will even though it is offensive and uncalled-for, but when someone else did it to them, the first rule is void hence it is only reserved for them. What kind of judgement is this? The thinking of a higher being? Or just plainly snobbish? You on the other hand are trying to show your superiority by oppressing the Muslim and pushed them into a corner in the cyber world like what your military is doing now in their homeland in the real world. And you are wondering how hostile some of them they are. Haven’t you learned physics?

I'm just explaining some relevant concept of things in Islam regarding our discussion. I'm not trying to influence you or make you a believer. It is beyond me.

srizals said...

Psybermonkey,

You have prescribed all Muslims with the likes of the few that has abandoned the teaching of their faith and chose a violent way to respond to aggression, both in intellect and bloody conflict, and yet, you have rejected my mentioning about the conduct and behaviour of the majority of atheists, not the minority nor a handful, but a well organised and powerful governments and organisations, not in an act of defence and retaliation, but in the act of aggression and oppression. What they had done is simply irrelevant. You don’t like to be associated with the likes of them. Muslims on the other hand are not entitled to your exclusive privilege.

You are using a Christian point of view to ask me a question as a generalisation of your comprehension on religion.

Regarding your question psybermonkey, this is what you should know about God according to Islam,

A saying of Muhammad, narrated by Muslim: Hadith Qudsi 1.

“When Allah decreed the Creation He pledged Himself by writing in His book which is laid down with Him: ‘My mercy prevails over my wrath.”

The Koran,
[10:44]
Surely, Allah does not wrong people at all, but the people do wrong their own selves.

Unlike the descriptions of god in other religion, God in Islam has laid a foundation and law to Himself and His creation known as Sunnatullah. Sunnatullah means the law that binds Him and His creation made by Him. For example, He has forbidden cruelty for Him. If you care to read the Koran you’ll find the verses explaining that even when God is above others, He didn’t act like a crazy person that will do whatever crossed his mind just because He has the ultimate power and no one could and should question Him. In Islam, God is unlike anything and do not possess the attributes of His creation. Man in the other hand, is in complete contrast.

I have answered your question or at least have tried to. You on the other hand, did not. None of you. How could I answer yes or no, since your definition of God is someone that would ask me to do hideous and vile things that contradict any nature of goodness and he is god? For me it is more an assumption and probability than a question.

Hadith Qudsi 16,
“Allah has written down the good deeds and the bad ones.” Then He explained it [by saying that] “he who has intended a good deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as from ten good deeds to seven hundred times, or many times over. But if he has intended a bad deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down as one bad deed.”- related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.

The Koran,
[10:35]
Say, “Is there any one from your associate-gods who guides to the truth?” Say, “Allah guides to the truth. Is, then, He who guides to the truth more worthy of being obeyed, or he who has no guidance at all unless he is guided (by someone else)? So, what has happened to you? How do you judge things?

psybermonkey said...

And so you have contradicted your own beliefs by saying such things. You have broken the core standards that people like yourself claim to be true of god:

1) Nothing is impossible of god.

Yet you say, "Such a question would not be considered as possible...No other new revelation or prophet can come."

2) You nor anyone else has the right to judge god due to his vast superiority and absolute authority; He makes the rules.

Yet you say, "Your definition of God is someone that would ask me to do hideous and vile things that contradict any nature of goodness and he is god?"

But srizals, according to your own standard, god makes the rules on what is ethical and so it would no longer be vile if he said so. He decides what is ethical, not you. Who are you to judge god, srizals? Like you said before, "He [God] is the most powerful above all, incomparable with all that exist here in the universe." So which is it?

This hypothetical question is designed to reveal on of two things...either reveal your strict obedience to god under any circumstances due to his absolute authority and ability to do anything, or reveal the fact that you contradict your own beliefs when it comes time to put them on the line - which you have clearly shown as outlined above.

So decide: is nothing impossible for god and does he have absolute authority over what is ethical? Or is god someone who does have his limits and whom we do have the right to judge? If the ladder is true, then go ahead and say it - since so far you've only contradicted yourself according to the standards of belief regarding god.

Yes, you have responded to my question. Before moving on however, I am giving you the chance to respond to your contradictory answers.

Srinivasan said...

Allow me to contribute to the great debate between psybermonkey and srizals.

Allah coming to someone and condoning rape, paedophilia etc. is not a hypothetical situation. It has happened. If you look at the Qur'an and the accompanying Hadiths and Siras, you will realise that Allah has indeed sanctioned such behaviour.

You see, Allah sent his greatest messenger, Mohammed, to the world as an exemplary human being. So every action that Mohammed performed is not only divinely sanctioned, it is to be emulated by all good Muslims throughout their lives. In the course of his life, Mohammed has committed the following:

Paedophila (carnal knowledge of his child-brde Aisha at age 9)

Rape (see above. Also, he raped women captured in battle, usually whilst the bodies of their slain fathers/husbands where still warm)

Murder (of apostates and Jews and pagans, in countless numbers. Most of the murders were carried out by his followers upon his instruction, but a few privileged individuals were personally despatched to Allah by Mohammed himself)

Muslims are indeed following in the footsteps of Mohammed today. So to answer psybermonkey's question on behalf of srizals: yes, a good Muslim will indeed rape, murder etc if Allah commands him to do so. Hope that helps srizals.

srizals said...

All hail to the mighty Kali. I can't have a quarrel with you since you're not a Brahmin. All talk with no proof and comparison? Don't forget your sacrifice to Kali now, Srinivasan. Suttee is enough for you.

Psybermonkey, it's your turn to answer my questions. Have you eaten your own words now? Let our readers read your explanation. If not, it's going to be a dull stereotype argument, won't it? You keep on asking, I keep on answering. Where's the fun in that?

psybermonkey said...

But srizals, you never actually answered my question. Sorry, but I'm not going to let you get away that easy. All you've responded with is an argument for why it's "a wrong question." As I have just shown, you contradict yourself in such reasoning and so now it is time to fairly answer it in accordance with the hypothetical format.

So simply decide: is nothing impossible for god and does he have absolute authority over what is ethical? If so, what would you do if he came to you and commanded such things?

Or, is god someone who does have his limits and whom we do have the right to judge? If the ladder is true, then just go ahead and say it - since so far you've only contradicted yourself according to the standards of belief regarding god.

I'm not going to answer your questions if you're not going to play fair and adequately answer mine. All you've done so far is try to get out of doing so. Now that I've shown you why your reasoning is flawed and contradictory, it's time to actually give an answer.

Srinivasan said...

Srizals, I fail to understand what Kali (whatever that is) or suttee have anything to do with my comment or me. Was that supposed to be an insult? You don't know shit about me so stop making assumptions based on my name. Is that the best you could come up with since you could not counter my statements? I decided to respond to you after reading your comments; you came across as a Muslim with a decent thinking brain, as opposed to the majority of your brethren who spout mindless drivel/personal attacks in support of their ideology. Was I wrong?

You want proof? Of what? Of Mohammed's excesses? Well, like they say, the proof is in the pudding. Just open up your Qur'an and Ahadith and you will see. Maybe you should open your eyes before that.

srizals said...

Srinivasan said,
Srizals, I fail to understand what Kali (whatever that is) or suttee have anything to do with my comment or me.

Sorry to say this, it's not the only thing that you fail to understand. Read your own comment and then judge my response to you.

Then tell me, Srinivasan. What are you?

Ritchie Annand said...

I think what srizals must want is counter-quotes from the Qur'an.

[5:38]
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.
[5:51]
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
[5:80]
Thou seest many of them making friends with those who disbelieve. Surely ill for them is that which they themselves send on before them: that Allah will be wroth with them and in the doom they will abide.

or some of the wonderful hadiths like:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

That's fun, too.

It's just like quoting the OT or NT that way.

Srinivasan said...

Srizals,

I am very clear on what I wrote. I can't say the same about you. You don't even counter my comments with valid arguments.

And what do you care what I am? Whatever I am, I am not a "submitter" like you, if you know what I mean.

Ritchie Annand said...

I'm worried about the boy, not in the least for this on his blogger profile:

I'm disappearing. I'm coming for the haters n liars in my own land, The Blessed lands of the Malay. Pray for me. These people may inflict harm, no I'm not afraid of me. N I don't want 2 run amok n killed everyone of course. It would be useless n meaningless. Keep my identity a secret. If not. I would have 2 terminate U on the spot. Nah, Just kiddin. Don't get jumpy now.

"Coming for"?

Errr, um.

He also follow Denyse O'Leary's blog. That's less worrisome, but still a bad sign as to his truth detection system.

How can someone who has such a good list of favourite movies go so wrong?

Srinivasan said...

he says he's disappearing. looks like he has kept to his words...

srizals said...

Are you a thief Annand? Only thieves would be greatly concerned about this verse. Then tell me, what's your solution to the man creature that loves to steal and kill or inflict grievous pain to their victims in the process of stealing? Surely his victims had lost more than a hand. What made the victims have the right to suffer him? Madoff got it with a smile on his face. What possibly could stop all the thieves from the temptation? Give an alternative please.

Current examples are enough to answer your futile attempt to misquote the verses Annand.

But to lessen your fear, these verses are only a threat to those who harbour ill intentions towards the Muslims. Those who do not, no matter who they are, are not included. For example, no Muslims are killing you for being what you are. But don't be in their country, killing them and laughing at them in their own homeland. You're an oppressor that loves to kill and maim, should you expect any less from your victims?

srizals said...

These people may inflict harm, no I'm not afraid of me. N I don't want 2 run amok n killed everyone of course. It would be useless n meaningless.

It would be useless n meaningless.

Now I'm wondering why do some people think that atheists are so smart. They can't even grasp what they are reading. Hmm..

Srinivasan said...

srizals wrote:

"Now I'm wondering why do some people think that atheists are so smart. They can't even grasp what they are reading. Hmm.."

Maybe it's because of your grasp of the English language srizals...

srizals said...

Maybe Srinivasan, maybe..

srizals said...

For the sake of arguments Ritchie, I’ll provide the ones that you have left out.

[5:38]
As for a man or a woman who commits theft, cut off the hands of both to punish them for what they earned,-a deterrent punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

[5:39]
Whoever repents after his transgression and corrects himself, then Allah shall relent towards him. Surely, Allah is Most-Forgiving, Very-Merciful.

[5:40]
Do you not know that to Allah alone belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth? He punishes whomsoever He wills and forgives whomsoever He wills. Allah is powerful over everything.

[5:41]
O Messenger, those who race towards disbelief should not be a cause of grief for you, be they from those who say with their mouths, “We believe”, while their hearts do not believe, or from those who are (pronounced) Jews. They are listeners to the fallacy, listeners to other people who did not come to you. They distort the words after they had been properly placed. They say, “If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, then avoid it.” The one whom Allah wills to put to trial, you cannot do anything for him against Allah. They are the ones whose hearts Allah did not intend to purify. For them there is humiliation in this world, and for them there is a great punishment in the Hereafter.

[5:42]
They are listeners to the fallacy, devourers of the unlawful. So, if they come to you, judge between them or turn away from them. If you turn away from them, they can do you no harm. But if you judge, judge between them with justice. Surely, Allah loves those who do justice.

[5:43]
How do they ask you to judge while the Torah is with them, having the ruling of Allah? Still, they turn away, after all that. They are no believers.

srizals said...

[5:67]
O Messenger, convey all that has been sent down to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you shall not have conveyed His message (at all). Allah shall protect you from the people. Surely, Allah does not lead the disbelieving people to the right path.

[5:68]
Say, “O people of the Book, you have nothing to stand on, unless you uphold the Torah and the Injīl and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.” What has been sent down to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them more persistent in rebellion and disbelief. So, do not grieve over the disbelieving people.

[5:69]
Surely, those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians - whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, and acts righteously, shall have no fear, nor shall such people grieve.

[5:70]
Certainly We took a pledge from the children of Isrā’īl and sent Messengers to them. Whenever a Messenger went to them with what did not meet their desires, they cried lie to some, and killed others.

[5:71]
They thought that no harm would follow. Therefore, they became blind and deaf. Then, Allah accepted their repentance, but again they turned blind and deaf, many of them. Allah is watchful of what they do.

[5:72]
Surely, disbelievers are those who say, “Allah is the MasīH, son of Maryam” while the MasīH had said, “O children of Isrā’īl , worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” In fact, whoever ascribes any partner to Allah, Allah has prohibited for him the Jannah (the Paradise), and his shelter is the Fire, and there will be no supporters for the unjust.

[5:73]
Surely, disbelievers are those who say, “Allah is the third of the three” while there is no god but One God. If they do not desist from what they say, a painful punishment shall certainly befall such disbelievers.

[5:74]
Why then do they not turn to Allah in repentance and seek His forgiveness, while Allah is most forgiving, very merciful?

[5:75]
The MasīH, son of Maryam, is no more than a Messenger. There have been messengers before him. His mother was very truthful. Both of them used to eat food. Look how We explain signs to them, then see how far they are turned away.

[5:76]
Say, “Do you worship, besides Allah, what has no power to do you harm or bring you benefit?” Allah is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

srizals said...

[5:44]
Surely We have sent down the Torah, in which there was guidance and light by which the prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah, used to judge for the Jews, and (so did) the Men of Allah and the Men of knowledge, because they were ordained to protect the Book of Allah, and they stood guard over it. So, (O Jews of today,) do not fear people. Fear Me, and do not take a paltry price for My verses. Those who do not judge according to what Allah has sent down are the disbelievers.

[5:45]
We prescribed for them therein: A life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear and a tooth for a tooth; and for wounds, an equal retaliation. Then, if one forgives it, that will be expiation for him. Those who do not judge according to what Allah has sent down, they are the unjust.

[5:46]
We sent ‘Īsā son of Maryam after those prophets, confirming the Torah that was (revealed) before him, and We gave him the Injīl having guidance and light therein, and confirming the Torah that was (revealed) before it; a guidance and a lesson for the God-fearing.

[5:47]
And the people of the Injīl must judge according to what Allah has sent down therein. Those who do not judge according to what Allah has sent down, they are the sinners.

[5:48]
We have sent down to you the Book with truth, confirming the Book before it, and a protector for it. So, judge between them according to what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires against the truth that has come to you. For each of you We have made a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made a single community of people, but (He did not), so that He may test you in what He has given to you. Strive, then, to excel each other in good deeds. To Allah is the return for all of you. Then Allah shall tell you about that in which you disputed.

[5:49]
We order you to judge between them according to what Allah has sent down. Do not follow their desires, and beware of them, lest they should turn you away from some of what Allah has sent down to you. If they turn away, be assured that Allah intends to make them suffer for some of their sins. Surely, many of the people are sinners.

[5:50]
Is it, then, the judgement of (the days of) Ignorance that they seek? Who is better in judgement than Allah, for a people who believe?

[5:51]
O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Christians for intimate friends. They are friends to each other. Whoever takes them as intimate friends is one of them. Surely, Allah does not take the unjust people to the right path.

srizals said...

[5:77]
Say, O people of the Book, be not excessive in your religion unjustly, and do not follow the desires of a people who have already gone astray, misled many and lost the right path.

[5:78]
On those who disbelieve from among the children of Isrā’īl , a curse was pronounced by Dawūd and ‘Īsā, Son of Maryam. All this because they disobeyed and used to cross the limits

[5:79]
They did not forbid each other from any evil they committed. Evil indeed is what they have been doing.

[5:80]
You see many of them take the infidels (the pagans) for friends. Indeed, evil is what they have sent ahead for themselves, for Allah is angry with them, and they are to remain in torment for ever.

[5:81]
If they believed in Allah, in the prophet, and in what had been sent down to him, they would have not taken them (the pagans) for friends, but many of them are sinners.

[5:82]
And you will certainly find that the people most hostile against the believers are the Jews and the ones who ascribe partners to Allah. You will certainly find that the closest of them in friendship with the believers are those who say, “We are Christians.” That is because among them there are priests and monks, and because they are not arrogant.

[5:83]
When they hear what has been sent down to the Messenger, you will see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognized. They say, “Our Lord, we have come to believe. So, record us along with those who bear witness.

[5:84]
What excuse do we have if we do not believe in Allah and in the truth that has come to us, while we hope that our Lord will admit us to the company of the righteous people?”

[5:85]
So, because of what they said, Allah has awarded them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will live forever. That is the reward of those who are good in their deeds.

[5:86]
But those who disbelieved and denied Our signs, they are the people of the Fire.

But there is a story behind it. It is known as Asbabun Nuzul, the reason behind the revelations of the verses. They don't just pop up out of nowhere. Complementing each other in a book that would take 23 years in the making.

Ritchie Annand said...

Good grief, Srizals, you're defending that barbaric practice?

"Only thieves would be concerned", really? One would think with the list of movies you purport to like, you would know that 'the only people who need fear extreme punishments are criminals' is one of the hallmarks of slipping into a totalitarian regime.

An alternative? How about... just about anything else? Jail time may not be ideal, but 'sorry mate, er, here's your hands back'. How about Scandinavian-style restitution, for those who are able?

"Surely his victims had lost more than a hand." It makes no distinction other than extenuating circumstances for the poor. Is a bicycle worth a hand? A car? No.

Current examples are enough to answer your futile attempt to misquote the verses Annand.

You will need to do more than wave your hand to demonstrate that I am misquoting, Srizals.

5:80 looks to me, for example, as though Muslims who dare make friends with a non-Muslim are doomed by an angry Allah to hell.

Am I wrong about this? Do Muslims only consider this in historical and not present context?

But to lessen your fear, these verses are only a threat to those who harbour ill intentions towards the Muslims.

No, they're not. Never mind the harm done to interfaith relations by divinely-ordered xenophobia, you share a country with other faiths, yet seem compelled to "do something about it". What is your litmus test for "ill intentions"? How large a line do you yourself draw between killing and depicting the Prophet (to tie back in to the whole point of the original post)?

Are the FPI, MMI and HTI going to gain ground? What will be their treatment of other faiths? Will it be religiously motivated? How about Aceh's implementation of Shari'a, which was purportedly going to be an 'adjunct' to civil law, but we hear tales told of passing stoning laws, antithetical to almost every modern interpretation of human rights?

Now I'm wondering why do some people think that atheists are so smart. They can't even grasp what they are reading. Hmm..

I see. So your strategy is to be unclear, act smart and claim victory in advance? I'm sure it makes you feel better, but from the outside, it looks like you have stopped engaging in objective consideration and set your mind in stone.

That's not a virtue.

Also, you've flipped my first and last name - I'm Scottish, not Indian :) Terimah kasih.

Ritchie Annand said...

What do you think of Queen Rania, by the way?

srizals said...

For an adulterer to be stoned to death, he or she must have taste sex through marriage before engaging in illegal sex. But having not enough of this privilege which was bound by holy matrimony and follow with it, responsibility. But still, to impose such law, required a thorough scrutiny. Four pious men known for their piousness must be the witnesses of such indecent act that they are required to witness the insertion of the man into the woman, both willingly. They would not be pious in the first place, if they were like peeping Toms if you know what I mean. For having this almost impossible rule that governing the law, it shown to us, the nature of this law. And foremost, the conditions needed to implement such laws are almost in a euphoria kind of state, where no poverty and difficulties to marry exist in the perfect Muslim community where the reasons and causes that would motivate such crime are almost non-existence. What more in a poverty ridden and dysphoria state of war torn countries. It is impossible to seek justice in an anarchy surrounding.

The numbers of those who had lost their hands and lives in the so-called barbaric laws are not even comparable with the numbers that had lost their lives and limbs in Western abortion laws, current illegal wars, previous sanction on Iraq and the West bloody history. The inquisitions, Protestant vs. Catholic wars and colonialism.

Antithetical is a funny thing. To some, abortion is unethical, to some it matters not. Human right is also a funny thing. It seems to be reserved to some and not applicable to many. You seem to be more concerned on how Muslims treat criminals that would have caused a more heinous crime to happen. What about the West’s treatment to the non criminal entities, the babies resulted in free sex activities and the civilians that died in West initiated wars?

My country didn’t implement the stoning and the cutting of the hands of thieves based on the reasons I’ve explicitly mentioned above. No Muslim nations accused us as being un-Islamic. Should you?

Queen Rania is a wonderful Muslimah and a fine example for them. If only she would cover her beauty more and not exposed it to undeserving men. She’s not perfect, just like me and you. But her goodness and efforts much outweighed her weaknesses. Incomparable to me and you. Why? Where are you getting at Annand?

Ill intentions in regarding supporting the killing and oppressions of Muslims, as in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Palestine. Direct involvement would be considered as a hostile move. Just kill the killers please. Leave the civilians alone. Wouldn’t you be curious that Germany is not that willingly to obey and simply follow others to the meat grinder?
As for Front Pembela Islam, Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia, Majelis Mujahidin Indonesia and so on, it is crucially depends on how the West is conducting itself in the so-call human rights and justice that they are claiming as championing. The double standard treatment and conduct is heavily misleading. As for the selective blindness of some of the Westerners nowadays. When the reason to hate is gone, so would they.
Now, my turn.

1. What is your solution to the abortion issues in the West?
2. What is your solution to the sexual problems in the West?
3. What is your opinion on Dier Yassin?
4. What is the reason that made most Muslims resent the West nowadays? Envy?
5. Do you think that Israel is a totalitarian regime? If not, why?
6. What is your opinion in targeting civilians in wars and sanctions? Are they barbaric or not?

srizals said...

The current situation I’m referring is about the armed and hostile treatment of the mighty nuclear powered Israelis towards Muslims. Which I will quote briefly,
“Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice”.

They were peace activists attacked in a very intimidating manner in the blackness of the night, on international water with no lethal arms to do any harm. You just don’t simply machine gunned people that attack you with small pocket knives or sticks and you were the ones that startled them in the blindness of the night in the first place.

I am making friends with you, and so? You see, that is why I’m here. To stop the prejudice and the hatred among us. Through dialogue and conversation. But when it comes down to ignoring the brutalities and oppressions faced by Muslims and Christians in the occupied lands of Palestine, it would be better of course, for Muslims to reflect this historical events that have been stated in the Koran, like in 5:80:

[5:78]
On those who disbelieve from among the children of Isrā’īl , a curse was pronounced by Dawūd and ‘Īsā, Son of Maryam. All this because they disobeyed and used to cross the limits

[5:79]
They did not forbid each other from any evil they committed. Evil indeed is what they have been doing.

The current state of Israel has disobeyed and cross the limits of many international laws and humanity values. The only reason that it is so cocky is that the West, if not majority of them, supported them fully for guilt and of course the hidden agenda to destabilize Muslim worlds.

Dier Yassin, Sabra and Shatilla, recent Gaza attacks had shown to us how the IDF had crossed the limits. They compared the fire crackers hole in the ground and houses with craters of the size of a football field as a comparison of the deadly threat they were having from Hamas. The Palestinians had shown their kind and honest gestures of peace by returning to Gaza and the West Bank, to initiate the peace process, which many Muslims had anticipated it as just a trick to hold them down in the largest confinements in the world today. They are merely sitting ducks. And the true nature of the peace loving Israelis is revealing itself day by day. Egypt and Turkey still have contact with them, trying to assure them that Muslims aren’t looking for their destructions, with the Israelis successfully proved that Egypt and Turkey were wrong in trusting them to the rest of the Muslim nations.

You call the law of cutting of hand of a thief and stoning as a barbaric law. What about what the West were and are doing now to unwanted result of their limitless freedom in sexual adventures? Millions of babies aborted and countless more afflicted with sexual transmitted diseases. Is that not barbaric?

What about the victims of the theft? What made them deserved the barbaric act of their tormentors, the thieves? The loss of the loved ones, who were hurt, killed, slashed, beaten to death and rape accompanying the act of stealing?

Even to this extent, the thief is spared with tight regulations in facing his justice. There are considerations to be taken into account. The amount and the value of the stolen product. The reason of the theft, was it because of hunger and depravation of the basic needs of the living and social justice.

TaoCat said...

srizals-

Nice mental gymnastics on the adultery thing. I'm sure it was a huge comfort to all the women killed for being adulterers.

As to the rest, all you are saying is "western civilisation has problems too, therefore I'm right! Ha ha!"

Very bad news, I'm afraid. That isn't the way rational arguments work, especially since this whole blog is in opposition to western civilisation's largest institutions, chritianity. That it has problems is no surprise to anybody posting here.

So the reason that most people are ignoring you now is that you are both ill-informed (which could be amusing) and boring (which is not.)

No thanks are necessary, srizals.

TaoCat said...

Oh, also...your avatar is that of Guy Fawkes, an ardent catholic christian. He failed too. Just sayin'.

Srinivasan said...

Srizals,

Your blogspot is charmingly titled "overturning lies and hate".

Did you realise your Allah is the greatest of the haters? More than half of the Qur'an is filled with hatred and anger. So what do you have to say about that?

You like to quote your Qur'an with a quick cut-and-paste job but you fail to provide answers to the real questions.

Here's a question of my own: Allah, according to your ideology, only allows Muslims (people who declare the Shahada, among other things) into Jannat, so by that account, do you believe the following people are currently residing in Jahanam, or will end up there on the day of judgement:

Mahatma Gandhi
Martin Luther King
Mother Teresa
Andrew Carnegie.

Andrew who? Y'know, that guy who lived in America, an agnostic who donated $350,000,000(yes, that's 350 million bucks) over a hundred years ago for charity, uplifting the lives of millions.

(Bracing for another long deluge of cut-and-paste quotes...)

srizals said...

Srinivasan claimed "More than half of the Qur'an is filled with hatred and anger"

Prove it first Srinivasan, only then your question has some credibility to be entertained by me. Neither of you even dared to answer mine, but gave excuses of this and that, like a teenager trying to escape from their misadventure.

As for those who do good deeds but neglect their Creator, knowingly, they have lost their afterlife. However, all the goodness in this life would be theirs.

As for those who do good deeds but do not know about Islam. Allah will judge them accordingly. Allah is just. Those who denied Him, knowingly, would have to bear the consequences of course.

Christianity may be a problem to you, Taocat, but for me, it is just a phase like all the phases of life that a person must go through. Some may get through it, and proceed, while most, would not. It depends on their perception and ken, I guess. But don't give up. Do good, avoid evil, don’t stop evaluating, eventually you'll open your eyes and wake up from your dream world.

TaoCat said...

"Do good, avoid evil, don’t stop evaluating, eventually you'll open your eyes and wake up from your dream world."

Hmmm. I believe in science and rational thought. You believe in a vengeful, gibbering god that has all the morality of a syphilitic rat. And you think I'm in the dream world.

They've found areas in the brain corresponding to religious "faith." I have hope that one bright day, we will have a cure.

srizals said...

Science? Isn't it through science and reason, man had poisoned, polluted, killed in mass all that had lived in a very gruesome way? Science and reasons without guidance of faith, that instil with it, mercy and fear of divine retribution, would be very destructive, as it has demonstrated in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, The Togo Unit or Unit 731. The Great Purge or Stalin's reason that if one can't prove his worthiness, what's the reason to keep him or her alive, were entirely 'rational'. Mao’s campaign to suppress counterrevolutionaries and Pol Pot’s S 21, and current Myanmar. Most of the gruesome atrocities were based on Science and the thinking of the likes of you, I'm afraid.

You have purposely ignored what drove a handful of Muslims mad and chosen a bloody retaliation against a bloody oppression for almost 70 years! You are afraid to comment on Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Palestine as if they are inconvenient truth to you. Lies seem to be dominating your conduct and history. No wonder you are oblivious why the so-called terrorists are so damn mad at you. You’re killing their babies and families, destroying and plundering their lands, knowingly and supporting their killers and heartless oppressors! Ten of thousands of fancy GIs, fat military contractors are now plundering Afghanistan against a mere 100 Al Qaeda operatives and less than 20 k Taliban fighters. Trust me; they are not avenging 9/11/2001. They are making profit out of it, on the expenses of the deluded bunch like you. The Taliban did offer the USA that the so-called Terror planner to be judge in a neutral country for a fair trial, but the proud US simply answered with Tomahawks. On August 20, 1998, the US tried to kill Osama in Khost and bombed Khartoum, also with Tomahawks; they were all based on inconclusive theory of the attack on US embassies on August 7, 1998 in Kenya and Tanzania. The death tolls and destructions that follow suit the Egyptian terrorist attacks on the embassies, far out-weighted any just ‘reason’ for justice since none of the responsible attackers were the countries being invaded and destroyed. The attackers were individuals, not countries. Where’s the reason in that? But a country and a powerful military alliance did attack the Muslim nations I’ve mentioned. And before you said they had it coming, know this, the USA meddling in killing and capturing the terrorist members to Egypt and US short meddling in Somalia in 1993 -1994, exposed them to the attack in the first place. You have to seek out the first domino in order to understand the domino effect, Taocat. The US can’t seem to work out a diplomatic solution and Interpol to track down just the terrorists. It had to destroy and obliterate to save its pride. The UK just tagged along and brought the terrorists’ menace back to its homeland. They are still confused and blind, most of them anyway. Some are beginning to see and understand.

Tell me Taocat or others; what is your opinion in the invasion of Iraq in fear of Saddam’s possession of WMD, the bombing of a factory in suspicion producing chemical weapons in Khartoum and the story behind the abortion law in the USA? What about the destruction and death of those who never harm the West and approve the terrorists’ ideas? Would you like to share your scientific reasoning with us?

Srinivasan said...

Wow! A Mohammedan asking for proof! Yet you believe the Qur'an and your prophet wholesale without asking for proof. My proof is right there between the covers, if only you'll open your mind and read it. There's so much in there buddy. I can't possibly cut-and-paste everything like you are fond of doing.

TaoCat said...

Does it hurt much, srizals? It's amazing that you are so wilfully stupid as to decide what my political leanings are based on my lack of belief in a god. You drop a bunch of red herring arguments (what the hell does USA's Middle_east policy have to do with atheism?) and then cut-and-paste a bunch of drivel from that insane delusion you call religion.

As to science, get real. Science brings both good and bad, it's how you use it that counts. Your idea of an argument is laughable. But like most religious delusionists you simply keep on posting nonsense, then try to declare victory when people grow bored with your antics and stop posting.

Don't get your burka in a knot but your religion is a joke, you just haven't understood the punchline yet.

srizals said...

As expected, a cowardly response of a coward that hides behind a name and talk proudly without any substance in the internet. I leave it as it is for the whole wide world to see. Thank you Steve for being a good moderator. Catch you later Taocat and Srinivasan, whatever you are. It had been fun. Do whatever that suits you. You don't want to be late. Since being nothing is what you dream of. You have only demonstrated what you have accused of the Muslims. Congratulations.

Disclaimer: My discussions with these two unique creatures do not mean that these two represent their entity. These two are driven by blind hatred and completely oblivious of the world and the laws of cause and effect. Cheerio.

Srinivasan said...

Was that the punchline?

a@sd said...

this show that christens are real extremest