06 July 2010

Bryan Fischer: May each of us be a Phinehas in our own world

Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association says that each of us should be a Phinehas in own world.

Now that won't mean much to you, unless you've read the story in Numbers 25.

And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel ... And when Phinehas ... saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. Numbers 25:6-8

Here's what he has to say about it.

I want to read a passage that my wife pointed out to me this morning from Numbers 25. This is a story about a man by the name of Phinehas, the nation had lapsed into rampant sexual immorality - I don't know if that sounds familiar to you, it certainly does to me - and Phinehas was motivated to do something about this and he did something very decisive: he found an Israelite in flagrante with a Philistine woman and he ran them both through with a spear, pinned them both to the ground inside their tent, ran his spear through both of them, right into the ground. And that shook up the nation, it got their attention and they transformed, they made a decision, they turned from that kind of behavior and renewed their commitment to follow God.

...

So Phinehas is commended for his zeal, that he was willing to take action, that he was willing to act boldly, he was willing to act decisively out of his jealousy for his God and his jealous desire to see that his people, his nation, would be wholly devoted to God.

So what God is obviously looking for is more Phinehases in our day ... you know, and it's striking here, that here's the actions of one man, here is one man by his action, by his commitment, by his energy, by his commitment, by his willingness to take decisive and assertive action when that's what was called for, he alone was able to turn back the wrath of God from his people, from his nation.

So may his His tribe increase, may each one of us be a Phinehas our own world and in our own generation.

Mr. Fischer has later tried to deny that he was saying what he so obviously was saying: that we should all go out and murder people having (interracial?) sex. And yet it was the double murder of the interracial couple that made Phinehas a hero to Bryan Fischer and his God.

Here's his attempt to deny what he previously said.

So in Bryan Fischer's authorized (chicken-shit) revised version, Phinehas was a hero for murdering the interracial couple and each of us should imitate him and thereby become a Phinehas in our own world, but none of us should actually do what Phinehas did.

36 comments:

tsme said...

OMMFG!!
Is there no way I can link this blog post to my facebook?!
I mean REALLY!
OMMFG!

mikespeir said...

Having taught the Bible for years, I knew just what the subject would be when I read "Phinehas." Even as a Christian this story was an embarrassment to me. There's just no way to polish it up so it shines. There's no way to deal with it honestly except to admit that, according to the Bible, God thought this kind of murder was a good thing, at least at one time. Dispensationism won't solve the problem. There has never been a time when such an act wasn't evil--even if God does exist and even if he did expect it.

busterggi said...

Actually the woman was the same race, just a different tribe. The 'crime' was not fucking within the tribe/family.

Its really just an endorsement of incest.

Steve Wells said...

Yeah, you're right, busterggi. I should probably change "interracial" to "inter-tribal" or "inter-religious" or something.

Drew said...

"But it's just the Old Testament!"
"You're misinterpreting!"
"They were wicked sinners that deserved to die!"
"Who are you to question God?"

Oh sorry, my Christian excuse creator went off again. Damn thing's always broken.

dbd said...

The god of the O.T. (and any other book or religion that claims him) is not worthy of my worship or participation.

Bob Hutton said...

I don't agree with killing but I do beleive it is sometimes justified to break the law.

www.bobhutton1.blogspot.com

Matthew Blanchette said...

Never mind that Mr. Fischer identified the "Midianite" woman as a "Phillistine" woman (which most Bible believers equate with Samson's enemies); the crazy old white-haired guy actually has a TV show? :-O

D.O.K said...

@Drew :
"But it's just the Old Testament!"
"You're misinterpreting!"
"They were wicked sinners that deserved to die!"
"Who are you to question God?"

It is the old testament (Numbers is in the OT...yes, you are right)
You're NOT misinterpreting what is written
They were sinners - though i can't comment on wether they deserved to die
and i DEFINITELY agree with the last one.

Honestly... God hates sin, He hated it then, He hates it now. But those people LIVED UNDER A LAW!!! They broke the law - there were consequesnces.

What about when people break the law in the US and in some states can still be handed down a Capital Punishment? Is that okay because its decided by man?

TaoCat said...

So Bob Hutton, you endorse this guy? Why would you not kill for your loving god? You think what Phinehas did was moral?

TaoCat said...

Lovely, D.O.K. So the crime of having sex with the wrong person deserves death? God hates sin so much that he'll endorse insane punishments and cruelty beyond measure?

I find it very difficult, nearly impossible to understand how people can think that this biblical drivel is worthy of worship. At what point does your thinking warp so much that you begin justifying god's perverse pleasure in meting out insane punishments, often at infants.

Somehow, people take this seriously. I really cannot fathom how they do it.

skanksta said...

Even as an avid reader of this blog for more than 6 months now, I'm STILL suprised and disturbed by just how insane America is.

Where does this guy get off ?
DOK, (any other believer) how do you justify this offensive nonsense ?

I'm in love with a woman of a "different tribe" and looking forward to making coffee babies...

I'd (of course), be well fucked off if some religious nut was to spear us to death, but it's absolutely clear that god (and his apologists/believers) would think this ok ! Even justified !?

W
T
F
!

JDavis109 said...

Mr. Fischer should heartily applaud the theocratic Iranian government, which sentenced a woman to death by stoning for allegedly committing adultery ... But only if it was done in the name of the Christian god, not the Muslim one.

skanksta said...

As is often the case with this blog, I have to google up these wicked nutters and I found this gem, which cheered me up somewhat...

http://may-chang.com/?p=1097

D.O.K said...

@TaoCat

Okay, I was PURELY commenting in response to what Drew said and to the story of Phinneas. I was NOT agreeing with Bryan Fischer by ANY means - what he said was madness. Really ridiculous.

Re: Numbers 25. If you read from Number 22 you might actually understand the ENTIRE story - Phinneas wasn't just killing an "inter-racial" couple (God isn't racist - PLEASE!).

Balaam was a pagan Midianite. He was called by Balak (The Moabite king) to curse the Israelites. Eventually he devises a plan to bring God's wrath upon Israel.

He does this by going back to Moab and bringing its heathen women over to lure the Israelite men to indulge in sexual perversion and IDOLATRY (the women had the Israelites worshipping BAAL idols - that's kind of the key here - they were The Chosen People and they were worshipping other God's just because of a few seductive hotties!!!!!).

The final straw was when there was no shame left in what they were doing, and one man bought one of the women (a permiscuous Madianite woman) back to the Isreaelite camp.

Phinneas (who is actually the grandson of Aaron) was a faithful servent of God, he saw what was going on, and how Balaam had orchestrated the plan to bring God's wrath upon the chosen people, so he ended it.

It isn't about what tribe or race the woman was, in fact it wasn't so much about the woman at all - more about what the Israelite men bowing down to other God's just to get some.

But the reason was killed too was becuase she was actually the daughter of a influential Midianite leader - the plan was a delibrate one to bring down Israel but the Midianites and the Moabites - so they would receive God's wrath also.

There is a law about bowing down to false idol's. This law was being broken, there were consequences.

@TaoCat - i honestly hope you and your partner are extremely happy and do make coffee babies - i am sure they will be beautiful babies too.

D.O.K said...

@Skanksta - sorry that last comment was for you, not TaoCat.

Also - re: justifying offensive material. I won't justify it. It's not right, i wouldn't dare encourage or condone what Bryan Fischer said.

He has no place encouraging that sort of hate. Its almost like Fred Phelps, though maybe not quite as bad. Just becuase they call themselves christians, doesn't mean what they say is of Christ.

People do all kinds of things in the name of God, i see a lot of it and it makes me sick and it breaks my heart (again, Fred Phelps is a sickening exmaple of this). If you are going to judge me on what other Christians do, then so be it. But i am simply a follower of Christ - and Christ was LOVE! Not Hate!

skanksta said...

@ DOK
well, it's good of you to reply - and you seem like a nice fella - but I think if the OT is ABOUT anything, it's about justifying genocidal racism.

This might sound weird to you, but I think these nutters are actually MORE honest. They are treating the bible as transcendent morality and trying to implement it's conclusions and lessons. Sorry to say it, but it seems you are doing mental gymnastics to try and filter this wicked, backward nonsense through modern morality.

The god of the bible IS racist again and again and again - it's impossible to read it any other way.

Matthew Blanchette said...

Balaam, according to a good portion of Numbers, was a prophet of God who repented; remember Balaam and his ass?

You're really brainwashed, D.O.K., you know that?
;-)

D.O.K said...

@ Matthew Blanchette : You're right in that God used Balaam to bring prophecy through. But Balaam was still a PAGAN Midianite.

God gave him a word at each of the seven alters FOR Israel. Balaam even went out and blessed Israel, completely forgetting his mission from Balak it would seem. But in the end, corrupting the morals of Israel WAS a plan devised by Balaam.

Number 31:16 says
Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD

Its pretty clear.
Re: brainwashing... I have faith buddy - that's all :)

@ skanksta : I think its funny that you think i'm doing mental gymnastics, when all i am doing is reading the word - its all very clear to me. But then i guess i know the true character of God.

Also - I'm female :)

skanksta said...

Apologies DOK, you seem like a nice lady !

Could you tell me - since you know - what...

IS the true nature of god ?

and why didn't he make the moral of this 'Phineas' tale clearer - since it would obviously be taken as "it's good to kill those he conduct inter-racial sex" ?

D.O.K said...

@Skanksta...

Sorry for such a late reply - i've had a winter cold for the past week.

The Character of God - yeah i do know it actually - its all in his word.

God... is awesome! He is a devine healer and a faithful protector. He provides me with everything (yes, EVERYTHING) i need. I am in need of NOTHING with his consistent provision.

I am not one of those people who has had a sheltered and perfect life - there have been tough spots but God has delivered me from some pretty sludgy clay (and i'm talking about GOD - not the church - GOD!) He has redeemed me and made me whole again from where i was.

He has loved me with a love beyond all comprehension. I have an inheritance of perfect peace (unfathomable peace) in my life, and COMPLETE protection of the blood of the lamb.

Honestly, even though we, as christians, are meant to have faith - God has been way more faithful with me then i have been at times with Him. He is secure and solid and unchanging. He is the same always - consistent and NEVER forsakes or leaves or disappoints.

Ultimately - becuase of how much He loves and cares for us, the freedom i have in Jesus Christ has saved me (eternally as well as physically & spiritually).

God is good hey... i will vouch for that until my last breath. If only you could have experienced what i have - there would be no doubt in your mind.

Re: Phinneas - i don't know that it *IS* taken this way. I mean obviously it has been this time, but i have heard this story before - more then once, and i have always known it to be about the Israelites bowing down to false idols - not anything about inter-racial couples :)

Steve Wells said...

DOK, you said:


"Re: Phinneas - i don't know that it *IS* taken this way. I mean obviously it has been this time, but i have heard this story before - more then once, and i have always known it to be about the Israelites bowing down to false idols - not anything about inter-racial couples :)"

Let's forget the interracial thing. Maybe it wasn't that. But whatever it was, do you think it was a good thing for Phinehas to do? (Impale the Midianite woman and the Israelite man through their bellies while they were having sex?)

D.O.K said...

@Steve ... mmm honestly - no *I* don't think it was a "good" thing to do. But i didn't live 3000 years ago. I can't claim to understand anything about that time. Phinneas was Aaron's grandson, i would say he was a pretty faithful servent of God, what he was seeing would have been sickening to him, and as a faithful servant of God he would have known there would be consequences to these actions - They weren't covered by Grace then - so he put an end to it.

Things WERE bloody back then. They were black and white. There was a different understanding of justice and a higher standard of morality. We can't understand that in this sort of society/world.

Steve Wells said...

So you don't think it was a good thing to do, D.O.K.?

God thought it was a wonderfully good thing to do, and he praised and rewarded Phinehas for doing it. I guess you know better than God, eh? (Of course you do; we all do.)

skanksta said...

touche ! (from Steve - again).

DOK, your god sounds lovely - but he sure ain't the one from the bible !

D.O.K said...

Haha Steve, i am just a human... in *my* mere human understanding, of course i admit i don't *completely* understand all the ways of God. God is God and that is good enough for me.

You can twist my words all you want, but i don't and won't ever know "better" then God...and neither do you buddy...good try though :)

skanksta said...

"twisting my words" indeed DOK !

THE WHOLE POINT IS, THAT HE'S LETTING THE GODS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES - BY STUDYING WHAT THEY ACTUALLY TELL HUMANITY IN THE HOLY BOOKS THEY WROTE.

TaoCat said...

Gahhh! What is it with believers? "Oh, we can't understand the mind of god, god was only following the morality of his time, he is good and love and the killings, well, they're just old testament stuff. He sobered up for jesus.

Wrong is wrong. You don't have to understand the god's motivation, just the motivation of the jerks that wrote the bible. He is portrayed as a jerk, because it was made up by jerks making god in their own jerky image.

Doesn't the fact that the bible portrays this loving, all-knowing god as a bronze-age patriarchal father-figure having temper-tantrums give you a clue?

According to your funny little book, we were supposed to know good from evil. Phinehas.Was.Evil. No amount of vacillating about morality can excuse a barbaric and cruel act. It doesn't matter the mores of the time, god is SUPPOSED TO BE ABOVE THAT.

Bible-god is evil. Still, the believers make excuses for him, much like a battered spouse..."oh, he beats us because he loves us..." "We just don't understand him..."

Buy a clue or two. The inability of believers to own up to their own literature is maddening.

D.O.K said...

I'm not going to get into a debate with you on the character of God. God can defend Himself, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about it.

I know the characer of the God i have a relationship with and nothing that can ever or will ever be said can change my heart about it.

God is good. "He beats us cause He loves us?" Ha - laughable.

I will say this - i think its sad that you all read the word and believe whatever you believe because you think your clever or braver or above us "christians" but on The Day of the Lord "clever" and "brave" won't help you much if you aren't a believer.

I heard someone say once that the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" from Matthew isn't necessarily talking about the fear and pain one will experience in Hell but rather the deep remorse and anguish they will feel when they realise they never accepted the chances they got to learn the truth.

TaoCat said...

Yeah, and muslims say the same thing. And Jehova's witlesses, and mormons, and catholics. They all have a cozy relationship with god, and the same proof-"I feel it in my heart.." So maybe you're gonna be gnashing your teeth or whatever. You have no more proof than buddhism, shinto or islam.

Or, people made the whole religion thing up, and kept it going because it helped to keep people from going all existential and angsty. It sure is easier than thinking.

Finally, if there was a loving god, don't you think he/she wouldn't make you jump through hoops to be saved? Just sayin'.

D.O.K said...

@ TaoCat :

Actually i *didn't* have to "jump through hoops" to obtain salvation. You have this idea in your head that its SO hard to be a Christian and we must be SO exhausted from keeping up with all the rules....And before you tell me to go read Steve's post on 115 ways t be saved - you should probably check the context behind them (yeah yeah - i used the context line... how about i'll stop using that line once you all start reading the word in context for yourselves rather then taking Steve's blog as gospel!)

Maybe you should read some of what Paul wrote on Grace (read the letters to the churches. Read Romans and Corinthians!). There is freedom in Jesus Christ. Why do you think its called the "Good News"... not because its hard and unbearable and impossible to live up to... we were saved from ALL of that when Jesus took our sins to the cross.

Just sayin'

TaoCat said...

I don't think it is impossible to live up to, unless you try to follow that silly book. It is pointless, though. "Love me, praise me, or burn."

Why don't you read some more of Steve's blog? God killing little kids for making fun of a bald guy, sexual killing, killings for "strange fire." The reason you don't question it is because you can't. It is ludicrous.

Almost every little religion believes that they, and only they, have the answers. You can't see that you are no different from the muslim, from the hindu, from anybody else. You're sure because you're sure. What makes you right and the muslim wrong? You both think you have a relationship with god. You can point to the bible, and they to the koran, and you're still both clutching at straws.

I have read the bible, thanks. I only wonder after having read it, why anybody takes that crap seriously. Try thinking instead. It's really underrated.

D.O.K said...

@TaoCat : You know i kind of feel like you're beating a dead horse here buddy. Every one of your responses is generally the same - its all getting kind of old. Right down to the little dig at the end about how i mustn't have a single thought of my own since I am a christian.

I do have one thought : Jesus Christ is Lord! (How about that eh?)

:)

TaoCat said...

How cute. Of course it wouldn't get old if you explained how your religion was different from any other religion, instead of chirpy little digs "Jeebers is great!"

So I will await to hear how your faith is different from all the other competing religions. And try, oh so hard, not to use the circular logic chestnut- "the bible is true 'cause the bible says it's true!" or the equally hackneyed "I know it in my heart.."

Because every other religion says *the*exact*same*thing. Bad news, you can't all be right. So explain away...

Good luck.

D.O.K said...

Yeeeah... see i'm not really called to explain myself, or my beliefs to you. I'm called to spread the word of God, and you claim to already know that, so at the risk of trying to live up to YOUR standards and YOUR requests... i think i'll probably choose to NOT "explain" anything to you :)

I can tell you this though... i would bet my bottom dollar that one day there is going to come a time that you're going to need God - and on that day, if you were to ask Him - He'd be there for you.

TaoCat said...

Yeah, I cry bullshit to that. Surprisingly, not everybody needs the mental crutch of your faith. I also notice you've failed utterly to answer any of my inquiries as to the validity of your faith, or why I should give it the least bit of precedence over islam, moronism or scientology. Just the smarmy smugness of the believer clutching at the scattered ideology of faith. And with your "I don't have to answer to you," bit, I suspect you can't answer my legitimate questions.

Life is wonderful, even without believing in a father-figure sky-pixie. You don't really need religion to find purpose. I find it very troubling when your kind simply soft-pedal the horrific aspects of the bible, and downplay what is actually written there instead of owning up to your legacy.