Okay, the answer to yesterdays bible question (Who does God hate?) is Esau. He is the only person in the Bible (so far as I know) whom God is said to hate. (Malachi 1:3, Romans 9:13)
But why did God hate Esau? Does God hate redheads? (Gen.25:25) Hunters? (Gen.25:27) Polygamists (Gen.26:34), or what?
Can some Bible-believer explain this to me?
12 comments:
Hi my name is Jesse. I am 13 years old and i listen to my father a lot about subjects like this. From everything i haved learned, i believe that God hated Esau because he chose to hate him...it had nothing to do with what Esau did...If you read Romans 9:11, it says "Even before they had been born or done anything goood or bad..." then Romans 9:13, "...I have loved Jacob but Esau have i hated"...Clearly these verses are trying to make a point that Esau and Jacob had nothing to do with gods love, It was God chosing who he would love and who he would hate. Some people think its because Esau was an evil man, but Romans 9:11 clearly says that before they had done ANYTHING...God loved jacob and not esau...it was not up to them...it was up to God.
I hope this helps some people if they dont understand why god hated esau. But one thing i know, is that many people HATE it when i say god doesnt love everyone. Too bad people, he doesnt love everyone...so pray and ASK for acceptance FROM God...only way to heaven is through him, not us...we are nothing.
i hate to be harsh but the truth does hurt.
If god's love or hate is so completely unfair, why should I care at all what god thinks of me? I could kill babies and god would love me best then Mother Teresa just because.
Even if such a god existed, everyone with any sense of morality would be moraly obligated to ignore him. Few things have ever felt better to me than finally concluding that all religion is at best fairy tales and at worst evil-intented lies.
RE: Few things have ever felt better to me than finally concluding that all religion is at best fairy tales and at worst evil-intented lies.
Simply awesome, well put starets!
Love the presence of an emotion, hate is the absence of love. Since God did not love Esau (relative to Jacob) this might be all you need to understand the passage.
Clearly believers understand that grace is wonderful, but what would grace mean if it were dispensed equally. There is a vast philosophical literature on the desirability of equality. This theology (a special form of philosophy) is clear on the undesirability of equality.
There are degrees of understanding which have to be acknowledged. The biblical literalists will have a hard time justifying hate as the presence of an emotion. But this gets added to wrath and other anthropomorphic qualities which are assigned to God. It may be possible to believe in the New Testament (as a theology / philosophy) without accepting that the book of Genesis is literal. A similar claim about the New Testament would be devastating to any person of faith, so that would not be allowed. So in the case that the stories of genesis are a basic of common lore, the allusion to Esau as the one that God hated merely stands in for the comparison between the ones that have grace and do not have grace. Since faith is considered here as all that is needed for salvation, it becomes queerly deterministic. The major loophole in the logic comes when Paul explains that we cannot understand God, which we use human language and ideas, but that the meaning which is being approximated is not accessible by us. It is either really deep, or a major dodge. If it is not deep, it is not worth worrying over, but people of faith must believe it is deep or find something else to occupy them.
God does not hate in the sence that we see hate. When you read the bible you much read it as a whole not just a verse here and there.
In Mark 10 there is a man who walks away from Jesus. He rejects Him because he loves his possesions more than the truth, yet it says Jesus loved him.
Will He save him? No, but God will not take joy in that. He is, "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9
I believe hate here is just contrasting how great his love for Jacob was. Luke 14:26, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
Is He realy saying it is a requirement to hate these people here? No, absolutly not, He is saying your love for Him must be so great that your love for others seems closer to hate in comparison.
When you read the bible you much read it as a whole not just a verse here and there.
Reading it as a whole give only more attention to all the discrepancies, continuity errors, moral stances most people either religious or non-religous would consider ludicrous today, as well as a good dose of scientific inaccuracies.
Easiest way out of all this would be if God used his omnipotence to simply travel back in time and knock that darn apple out of Eve's hand. Or use his omnipresence right then and there to achieve the same. 8)
I think you are mistaken in your view of God and the Bible. The Bible does not have any discrepancies when read together and each passage is put into its right context. Furthermore I don't think that God hates anyone. In this passage about Jacob and Esau, what is being pointed out is that God chose to use Jacob rather than Esau to father his people that would eventually lead to Jesus. This had nothing to do with what they did, but God simply chose Jacob. This does not mean that God hated the person Esau, but rather he is using this word as a contrast in choosing Jacob over him when tradition was to choose the older son for this kind of thing. Also, looking at the life of Esau, there were no indications in the way he lived to show that God hated him.
There are other parts of the Bible where the word "hate" is used as a means of contrast and not actually to mean hating the person.
I think that whoever it was who said giving up on God is just taking the easy way out. When you truly study and keep an open mind about what is true you will find that the evidence for Christianity is overwhelming and that almost all questions can be answered.
Lastly God did not use his omnipotence or omnipresence to change what Adam and Eve did because he has given us free will. We have the choice to follow God as well as the choice to turn away from him.
I have struggled with this passage but not as much why God hates Esau but why did He love Jacob. Jacob was a scoundrel, an unattractive momma’s boy. Esau was apple of his father's eye; a man's man. Why would God tell Rebecca two nations dwell in her womb and the greater will serve the lesser? What did Jacob possess to receive God's favor and what can I learn from this? Is God unfair? God says there are seven things God hates and arrogance is at the top of God's list. When I look at Jacob's actions I don't see a lot to be admired but can say arrogance is not one of them. Jacob sought his father's favor even to deceive him to receive his blessing; he worked 14 years for the love of his life; he was crippled by God when he wrestled God for his blessing. From his birth he sought to be blessed no matter how. As despicable as he was it is clear he wanted God's favor. In Esau there is no evidence of him seeking God. Esau despised his birthright; Esau broke his father's heart with women he sought for himself. Esau was strong, ruddy, self-sufficient and arrogant. He was his own god and the father of a nation of godless Edomites. King Harod was an Edomite probably the last of his line. He jailed and later killed John the Baptist for exposing his wickedness. He feared what he had done but was too arrogant to repent or seek after the kingdom of God. His kingdom was for now and he lavished on himself. He knew John's ministry and the prophecies of Christ and feared who Jesus could be. He asked Jesus if he was the Christ but Jesus never responded to him. This is the only recorded example of Jesus refusing to respond to anyone. Jesus despised the house of Herod. Today I have met many decedents of Jacob, but I have never met an Edomite but I have seen many arrogant men and nations like Esau and his decedents. Does God hate? I think so and for very good reasons. God will not be mocked.
"God will not be mocked" But I will anyway. LOL
From where I stand, it seems that a God who is omnipotent and omniscient has the right and the means to love or hate whoever he wants. And to judge someone that is all-knowing seems a little arrogant to me, Starets, doesn't it? It seems that only someone with ALL the facts-- to the point of even knowing motivations behind actions-- would be able to form a pretty solid opinion of someone's character.
God reveals himself in the Bible and in creation. And he puts forth to us that there is no formula for winning his love. If you know him, respect him, and love him for who he is, then why wouldn't he love you, too? I've never read anywhere in the Bible where there was someone who truly loved God and God returned hate. Overall, I'd say that is pretty reasonable.
So if you want to judge the God of the Universe, go ahead. Seems a little silly, though, to me-- you're basically saying that if there is a God, he or she is not as good as you. Now THAT'S hard for me to believe.
I can believe that there is a creator of the Universe who created me and cares for me and is beyond my understanding. If he's smart enough to create everything I know and keep it all going, he's way smarter than I am and smarter than anyone I've ever met. It just makes sense. And if he says he hates someone, he's probably got a good reason.
Jesse made a point but in his youth missed one thing. Good job Jesse but heres what you missed.
Because God knew you before you were born means he literally knew you, talked with you and knew your very soul. It also means that God knew the direction you would take and already harbors hate because you will not change due to your very nature. He knew you were a rebellious soul and already knows you are going to rebel in the future (after being born in human life). In the Garden God said to someone and the simple Preachers who have no real love of God claim it was Christ, but they are wrong, he was talking to the serpent, Satan. he said Let's make man in our image. This is a very important line that 99% of people miss or pass over. Ask your self this, other than Adam, Eve and God there was ONLY one other that had conversation and it was the Serpent with Eve. Theres a hint Who God was talking to.
God hated Esau because Esau was in rebellion BEFORE being born from a spiritual being into flesh.
God is spirit.
Satan is flesh
Mankind is the evolution of spirit and flesh.
God knew when Esau became both flesh and spirit his rebellion would worsen as it did. Thus he hated him. Today the sons of Esau ravage the world with evil, they have inter married with all races and work to steal back the birthright Esau gave up in his rebellion. If you study this long enough and hard enough you can see them and see how they deceive others. The Edomites are lived in the past 2000 years in the very halls of power. Many of them both believers and NON believers both hate and mistrust. Problem is the Non believers often fall victim to the Edomites. I would challenge a non believer to make an exhaustive study of who they are from a biblical perspective and you may find out who they are today, by their fruits (actions).
To answer tour question.
First I need to clarify things as to not make my answer too confusing or complicated.
Jrich is right, but think of it this way, if your dog deliberatley poops on the carpet right in front of you in defiance most people will loose it. I have seen that happen. Now they did NOT create that dog. God not only created man, but he is the mastermind of evolution, the literal creation of "matter" and is the one who turned pure energy (spirit) into other forms (matter) yet we as rebellious people have no problem putting a boot to a dog who is defiant, but when we are defiant want to say God is harsh for doing the same. Yet we blunder through life committing acts of evil and think that THE Creator has no right. If I build a shed outside with my own hands, I have the RIGHT to destroy it, yet how can I say that God has NO right to hate me for me being evil?
God does not hate read heads Moses was a red head. Read the bible.
God hates those who he gave life to and they poke their fingers in his eye and tell him where to go. God hates those who destroy other human beings souls. leading people away from salvation violates the simple laws of the Universe. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, this law every man accepts so why not accept GODs laws, he made the other ones we accept.
Man tends to pick and choose what laws he wants to obey, we already know that ignorance of the law is no excuse, and we accept that when it comes to MANS law, but refuse to accept GODS Law.
We are pretty sad.
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