04 May 2013

So the Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door this morning...

They started by saying they'd like to share a few verses from the Bible with me.

I said, "Sure, go ahead."

So one of them started reading this passage:
Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and gains the knowledge of God. He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. (1 John 4:7-8, NWT)
I listened politely and then I asked, "Would you mind reading another passage for me?"

He said, "Sure, which one?"

"Deuteronomy 13, verses 6 through 10."

So he read it in his New World Translation.
In case your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or your cherished wife or your companion who is like your own soul, should try to allure you in secrecy, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ whom you have not known, neither you nor your forefathers, some of the gods of the peoples who are all around ​you, the ones near you or those far away from you, from one end of the land to the other end of the land, you must not accede to his wish or listen to him, nor should your eye feel sorry for him, nor must you feel compassion, nor cover him [protectively]; but you should kill him without fail. Your hand first of all should come upon him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward. And you must stone him with stones, and he must die.
I asked him to explain how a God of love could have inspired that passage. Would a God of love command a man to stone to death his brother, son, daughter, wife, or friend for suggesting that he should worship another god?

He said he'd never thought about it before, but he'd get back to me.

I'll let you know if he does.



18 comments:

Stephen said...

By any chance, did you record the encounter? That would go so viral on YouTube!
Well done!
Steve Weeks

Stephen said...

Thinking a litle more about that, what about assembling a short (or long) "fire extinguisher" list for those special occasions when the Jojoba's Witlessnesses (or Morons) come calling and a handy response is called for. This one is a great start. :-)
Steve

Steve Wells said...

Yeah, that's a good idea, Steve.

They almost always start with a nice bible verse to soften you up. It would be good to have a counterexample to throw at them right away. That's sort of what I had in mind with the endpapers on the SAB. There should be something there to help counter the soft, fluffy stuff that believers like to quote.

It would be easy to suggest verses to use for the JWs - if you knew what verses they were going to use each week. Their spiel is determined by the Governing Body, so every JW will use the same bible verses. The trick would be to find out what those verses are each week and then suggest counter verses.

But I think it's time for non-believers to start going door to door.

"Good morning, sir. I'm Steve Wells and this is my friend, Steve Weeks. Could I ask you a question? Do you believe in the Bible? Have you ever read it? Are you familiar with this verse? What do you think of that? etc."

Something like 70% of Americans believe that the bible was inspired by God and is the basis of good moral values. That's because they don't know what's in it. It's time for us to let them know. Once they know, they'll reject it.

Will Ockham said...

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he probably won't. But hey, you never know.

teavee said...

Steve Wells: "But I think it's time for non-believers to start going door to door."

Better yet, non-believers could follow right behind the JW's. If a home resident allowed them some time, they'd probably allow non-believers some time. They could have a computer or some reference handy to counter what the resident was told.

Some people might learn a few things and see a little humor in it as well and have a story to tell.

Concerning the guy who said he get back to you, you could have asked him for an email address to correspond with him. I wonder if he would have given you one. I think it's more likely a non-believer would give out an email address and welcome further questions and even get them.

Danny Haszard said...

The big difference between Jehovah's Witnesses and other Christians is that the Watchtower Society's central core creed proclaims Jesus second coming in October 1914.

They sometimes try to obscure this today and say that he came *invisibly*.Yes,all other Christains are awaiting Jesus return,the JW say he ALREADY came in 1914.
Reports from TIME Magazine-*An even more extreme example of what might be called *masked churn* is the relatively tiny Jehovah's Witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds*.
That means that two-thirds of the people who were raised Jehovah's Witnesses no longer are.
Jehovah's Witnesses are the highest loss of any religion.
--Danny Haszard
FMI dannyhaszard(dot)com

William Enoch said...

Good work. WatchTower Members, aka Jehovah's Witness also practice the policy of shunning WTS Members who don't agree with WTS teachings. Even when a member doesn't agree with a teaching and is shunned, the member is still shunned even after that same teaching changes. (WTS teachings change frequently over the decades)

Helping WTS Members to realize that changing teaching cannot be "The Truth" (The Truth is what WTS calls its religion)because truth doesn't change. This may be also a good way to awaken WTS Members.

The latest major teaching change within the WTS is the new identity of the WTS's "Faithful and Discreet Slave". The FDS used to be the WTS's "anointed remnant". Now, as of October 2012, it's currently being taught that the WTS's "Governing Body" is the FDS.

Please ask WTS Members if they will personally continue to shun members who never believed the previous teaching that the anointed remnant was the FDS, after this major change in WTS teaching. If so, then please ask is this fair. See if you get any reply at all since most WTS Members don't think for themselves. In all fairness the answer should be no.

Lady J said...

I had that kind of "discussion" with a JW (how can they be sure they have it right this time, when they admitted to getting it wrong in the past) they answer was "God didn't want us to have the right information at that time." So I stopped talking to her about it. I cannot fight insanity.

skanksta said...

I believe the word is...
pwned !

chiliast said...

That's odd that they would have quoted 1 John 4:7-8, as Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe that they need to be born again. Also, Deut. 13 was written for Israel, who at the time was already under Mosaic Covenant relationship to God; it does not apply to believers today; the JW should have known that.

Steve Wells said...

chiliast,

That's odd that they would have quoted 1 John 4:7-8, as Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe that they need to be born again.

What does 1 John 4:7-8 have to with being born again?

Deut. 13 was written for Israel ... it does not apply to believers today; the JW should have known that.

Maybe the JWs pay more attention to Jesus than you do, chiliast. (See Matthew 5:18-19).

But OK, forget Jesus.

Was it ever a good thing to stone to death family and friends for believing in a different god? Would a god of love ask anyone at any time to do that?

Reason's Whore said...

We're still waiting for the JW's to come back here after their last visit. They promised they would! We had such a nice chat, I thought. Though they couldn't answer all of our questions, either. LOL

Yark Hutprancer said...

Oh man! Teavee's comment made me laugh and brought the greatest image to my mind. Imagine that at each house the JWs visit, there are a couple of guys in khaki shorts and sandals just standing and waiting on the sidewalk in front of the house with the SAB print version in hand. Then, as the JWs pass by to go on the next house, the skeptics run full speed to the door to try to put out any fires caused by the religionists! Too funny.

Jehovah's Witness said...

Ironically, because the Jews refused to obey Jehovah's commands, such as this one, they listened to apostates who drew them into breaking the covenant with God, which ultimately brought destruction upon the entire nation.

Stephen said...

Nice loving deity you've got there, JW. "Obey me or be destroyed!"
Ironically, and fortunately, there's no evidence such a malevolent (yet curiously insecure) entity exists.
Steve Weeks

Jehovah's Witness said...

Your comment about 'obey or be destroyed' reflects a conceit that afflicts a lot of people. You imagine God is unloving because he demands that people obey him. However, obviously all the evil in the world is because people do not obey God. People kill and rob each other and screw each other over in countless ways and then blame God for either not doing anything or for threatening to. Surely, you are part of the problem.

Stephen said...

"You imagine God is unloving because he demands that people obey him. However, obviously all the evil in the world is because people do not obey God."

Actually, I don't "imagine" god is anything, because god is a fig newton of YOUR (that's in the "plural" sense) imagination.
But, just to play "devil's advocate" for a moment, If god allows evil because people do not obey him, then he is one big son of a bitch. The funny thing is that bad things and good things happen to different kinds of people (religious - even JWs - and atheists) at about the same rate. Mysterious, eh? ;-)
Steve Weeks

Yark Hutprancer said...

>>Your comment about 'obey or be destroyed' reflects a conceit that afflicts a lot of people.

LOL! YOU are the one that said he "brings" destruction when people don't obey! It's not Stephen's conceit when he is simply repeating what you said!

But now you are saying that he doesn't bring it, but he allows it. All the bad that happens is just a result of us being the jerks he designed us to be.

>>People kill and rob each other and screw each other over in countless ways and then blame God for either not doing anything or for threatening to.

There are no gods, but if there were, I wouldn't blame them for allowing me to make a wrong turn at an intersection. (Although it would be their fault I make mistakes. They created me and all.) However, I would blame them if they allow a child to be raped. It's one thing to allow children freedom of choice, but another to allow them to eat each other. Your alleged god just sits there and lets the child be molested by another person. He watches while the child is forced to have sex. There is a difference between allowing people to make their own decisions and allowing people to hurt each other when something ought to be done. But in the devoted mind of the believer, with their gods, anything goes, because dogma is more important than sensibility.

>> Surely, you are part of the problem.

But your god isn't part of it at all, I guess, except that all of human nature was designed by him, so, if a person wants to sin, then your god designed him to want it. If your god didn't want us to sin, then I figure that he would have designed us to be like him - perfect. Certainly he doesn't mind being perfect. I don't see him offering to trade places with me so that he can struggle with sin. So, he must have wanted us to sin. So, maybe, disobedience isn't all that bad a thing.

I know. Being rational and thinking outside of the box is not the believer's strong suit. But what they are good at is hating themselves and everyone else in the name of their god.