21 June 2013

Douglas Wilson: Casting the first (and only) stone

Poor Doug Wilson. He has no one to throw stones with anymore.

Here is what he said in a recent post about the Exodus International affair.
I need to say a quick something about Exodus International shutting down, as they did so with apologies extended to gays and lesbians who had been harmed by their reparative therapy.
Here is how one news story put it:
“Exodus is an institution in the conservative Christian world, but we’ve ceased to be a living, breathing organism,” Alan Chambers, president of Exodus, said in a statement. “For quite some time we’ve been imprisoned in a worldview that’s neither honoring toward our fellow human beings, nor biblical.”
I want first to note the obvious thing about this ... this is a capitulation, a collapse, an apostasy, a travesty, and a moon crater. This is an instance of an organization that existed to call men and women to biblical repentance, and has wound up repenting of their belief in the need for any such repentance. So here is the first lesson — never repent of repenting. Bad idea.
In my mind’s eye, I can see when Lot was leaving Sodom, how there was a group of men at the city limits laughing at him. “You know,” they said, “you’re on the wrong side of history.” Lot’s wife nodded slightly, wishing she had married that Chambers fellow instead.
And here's my comment on his blog:
Yes, you’re pretty much all alone now, Douglas. No one else is willing to apply the biblical law to homosexuals.
It didn’t use to be that way though. Not too long ago that verse was loudly and unashamedly proclaimed at Credenda Agenda [produced by Pastor Wilson's church]. Here, for example, is a quote from Magestralis. (Your Eye Shall Not Pity, Greg Dickison, 1999, Vol. 3)
“Capital crimes, for example, include premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery, homosexuality, and cursing one’s parents (Ex. 21:14; 21:16;22:18;22:19; Lev. 20:10; 20:13; Ex. 21:17).”
But you have to go to the wayback machine to find quotes like that anymore. No one is willing to even say aloud the words of Leviticus 20:13.
I guess it’s up to you to throw the first (and only) stone.
I haven't yet got a response from Mr. Wilson. But if I do, I'll let you know what he says.


Stephen said...

I hope you aren't holding your breath, Steve! But if he *does* get back to you, ask him about Lot.
I want to know if, as he was leaving town, he had any idea that he soon wouldn't be sticking it to the old salt shaker, but into two hot young things... his daughters!
Family values there!
Steve Weeks

Steve Wells said...

Good point, Steve. But someone else (Marinus C) beat me to it. Here's an excerpt.

"And after God was done destroying Sodom and his perverted inhabitants, Lot and his daughters got really drunk and had sex together. God has an eye for recognizing healthy sexuality."

Stephen said...

Steve, you're doing a great job on the linked site (Wilson's blog). It's to his credit that your posts remain, I must say. I must also say that there are some scary people posting there.
Steve Weeks

Steve Wells said...

Thanks, Steve. I was also a bit surprised that my comments were posted. But Doug has always allowed me to comment. Maybe it's because we're neighbors here in Moscow.

You should go over there and participate as well. I could use all the help I can get.

Stephen said...

I just posted the following over there. Let's see if it survives mediation!

I copied this from one of your linked sites, Steve:

“The civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without guidance on how to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of judgment for many offenses.”

Now, since we know that the bible was written by men, what does this sound like? Does it sound like the way a supposedly omnipotent god would take care of business? Or does it sound like something a man wrote to justify his own wish to effect punishment of those he felt were violating god’s made-up-by-men “laws”?

If this supposed god had any guts (the courage of his convictions), he would punish these transgressions directly, in a “surgical drone strike” manner. How would a Bronze Age goat herder punish these “crimes”? Just the way they are recommended in the bible… by localized, simple (crude), mechanical violence.

Another good example is the “flood”, in which god supposedly killed almost every living thing on earth- including untold thousands (conservatively) of pregnant women. An all-powerful god would have (reasonably) spared the un-born and selectively targeted the sinners; he did it in Egypt. Of course, in Egypt an all-knowing god would have known which houses to spare; a Bronze-Age goat herder would have thought it was pretty clever to splash a little blood on a few doors.

Everything about crime and punishment in the old testament has the fingerprints of Bronze-Age, goat-herding men on it.

@ Luke B. and Matthias: Morality is an evolved characteristic of humans. It is also observable in non-human primates and even non-mammalian species. There is an obvious survival advantage to most moral behavior, especially among social animals like the apes (including humans; we are risen apes, not fallen angels).

Oh, sorry… you probably don’t accept evolution as an explanation for the way the world looks today, even though the evidence for it is virtually bullet-proof. You really should read more than just one book!

pi said...

Thanks Steve, I followed the link you gave of Marinus C's comment, those are some sound arguments you made there, I would like some of you here to take a look at what Seamus Riley is saying at this site: