The Numbers 15:32-36 Challenge to Bible Believers

Here's what the Bible says in Numbers 15:32-36:

While the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day. And they … brought him unto Moses and Aaron ... because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones ... And all the congregation ... stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

And here is the NonStampCollector challenge:

Christian believers, you have a choice: either defend the story of this man's being killed by having an angry mob of barbarians pelt him with rocks as being the holy justice mandated by a fair and just god of perfect love,...
or join the rest of the world in rejecting any deity's involvement in the story as a piece of insane fiction dreamt up by savage people hoping to convince somebody that their barbaric cruelty was mandated by a holy and unquestionable moral authority. It wasn't: it was fucking sick, AND YOU KNOW IT.
The bible is bullshit. Look elsewhere for perfect love.

Is there a Bible Believer who is willing to take the Numbers 15:32-36 challenge?

If so, I'd like to hear about it. You can even do a guest post here if you like.

Tebow 136: God's message from last night's game

In last week's overtime win against the Steelers, Tim Tebow threw for 316 yards. And, of course, believers everywhere immediately knew that God was trying to tell us all something.

You see, God carefully arranged (fixed) the game so that Tebow's passing yards would match the numbers of his favorite verse -- the only verse that he and his followers seem to know or care much about -- John 3:16.

God, it seems, likes to communicate using Tim Tebow's stats.

So what was God saying in last night's game against the Patriots?

Well, God is really into passing yardage, and last night Tebow passed for 136 yards.

Which could only mean one thing: God wants us all to read and obey a particular Bible verse involving the digits in the number 136.

After a careful check of the Bible, I think I know what verse God had in mind: Deuteronomy 13:6 (and following verses).

Here's what God says in the passage beginning with that verse:

13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.

God wants us to stone to death our family and friends, without pity (God hates pity), if they encourage us to worship the wrong god. (Which, of course, would include any Mormons, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc.)

I can't wait to see Tebow's eye-black for next season's opening game!

Douglas Wilson and I now agree on pretty much everything

OK. That might be a bit of an overstatement. But we do seem to agree on pretty much everything that we used to argue about, at least as far as I can tell anyway.

Here is a list of things that Douglas and I now seem to agree on:

1. No one should be burned alive or stoned to death (with the possible exception of pedophile priests).

2. Specifically, the following people and acts should not be punished by stoning, as required by the Bible.

   • Blasphemy or cursing -- Leviticus 24:15-23

   • Wizards or women with familiar spirits – Leviticus 20:27

   • Sabbath breakers – Numbers 15:32-36

   • Stubborn, rebellious, drunken sons – Deuteronomy 21:18-21

   • A city-dwelling virgin that doesn’t cry out when raped -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24

   • A woman who isn’t a virgin on her wedding night -- Deuteronomy 22:13-21

   • People who argue for the existence of another god -- Deuteronomy 13:6-10, 17:2-5

3. No one should obey God’s command to burn people to death. Specifically, the following people should not be burned to death:

   • A man, wife, and her mother if they are having an affair, get married, or whatever. – Leviticus 20:14

   • A priest's daughter that plays the whore – Leviticus 21:9

4. Homosexuals should not be executed. -- Leviticus 20:13

5. A Christian should not own slaves, even if they are treated well.

If you've read my previous posts about Douglas Wilson's views, you'll know that this is quite a change. Douglas and I disagreed on all of these items just a few years ago.

And it's possible that we still do. I haven't yet got a clear answer from Douglas on this list of agreements. But I hope to see it soon here.

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October 7, 2010 Update: Doug Wilson and I no longer agree on #5 (slavery).

Achan and his family are stoned and burned to death

This is one of those bible stories that most believers don't really believe in, if they know it exists, that is. It's simply not possible to believe this story and also believe that the God of the Bible is anything other than evil.

The story begins with Joshua sending spies to the land of Ai. The spies return saying Ai would be easy to conquer, requiring only a few thousand men.

Joshua sent men from Jericho to Ai … and spake unto them, saying, Go up and view the country. And the men went up and viewed Ai. And they returned to Joshua, and said …let about two or three thousand men go up and smite Ai … for they are but few. Joshua 7.2-3

So Joshua sent 3,000 soldiers, but they were defeated by the men of Ai, who killed about 36 of them.

So there went up thither of the people about three thousand men: and they fled before the men of Ai. And the men of Ai smote of them about thirty and six men. 7.4-5

When Joshua heard what had happened, he tore his clothes, fell on his face, and put dirt on his head, thereby proving that he was a real Bible character.

Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. 7.6

He then asked God why they were defeated.

Joshua said, Alas, O LORD God, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? 7.7

God told Joshua to get up off his face.

The LORD said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? 7.10

And then God said that the Israelites were defeated by Ai because someone took an accursed thing during the Jericho Massacre.

Israel hath sinned … for they have even taken of the accursed thing … and they have put it even among their own stuff. Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you. 7.11-12

But God told Joshua what he needed to do to get back to successful genocide: burn to death the man with the accursed thing, along with his family.

He that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath. 7.15

God even pointed out the guy. His name was Achan.

In the morning therefore ye shall be brought according to your tribes: and it shall be, that the tribe which the LORD taketh shall come according to the families thereof; and the family which the LORD shall take shall come by households; and the household which the LORD shall take shall come man by man. … So Joshua rose up early in the morning, and brought Israel by their tribes; and the tribe of Judah was taken: And he brought the family of Judah; and he took the family of the Zarhites: and he brought the family of the Zarhites man by man; and Zabdi was taken: And he brought his household man by man; and Achan, the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, was taken. 7.14-18

So Joshua ordered Achan to confess.

Joshua said unto Achan … make confession unto him; and tell me now what thou hast done; hide it not from me. 7.19

And he did.

Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done: When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them; and, behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it. 7.20-21

He then rounded up Achan, his family, his livestock, and all their possessions. "And all Israel stoned them with stones and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones." And that made God less angry.

And Joshua …took Achan … and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep … And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. … So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. 7.24-26

Since Achan’s sons and daughters were stoned and burned along with him, there must have been at least 5 victims here. (No mention is made of his wife.)

God's next killing: The Ai massacre

God's Killings in Leviticus

I can only find two killings in Leviticus, but they are both doosies.

1. God burned to death Aaron's sons for offering "strange fire."
   Leviticus 10:1-3

   

2. A blasphemer is stoned to death at God's command.
   Leviticus 24:11-23

   

And although God only kills three people, he orders everyone else to kill plenty of others.

Some he wants you to stone to death.

• Blasphemers Leviticus 24:16

• People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) Leviticus 20:27

And others you must burn.

• A man that has sex with his wife and mother-in-law (burn all three) Leviticus 20:14

• A priest's daughter who "plays the whore" Leviticus 21:9

But most he just says you should kill, without specifying the method. (Although you should make sure, whatever method you use, that "their blood be upon them." It's probably best to use a humane, God-approved method like stoning or burning.)

• Children who curse their parents Leviticus 20:9

• Both parties in adultery Leviticus 20:10

• If a man has sex with his father's wife (kill them both) Leviticus 20:11

• A man that "lies" with his daughter-in-law (kill them both) Leviticus 20:12

• A man that has sex with another man (kill them both) Leviticus 20:13

• A man or woman that "lies with a beast" (kill man or woman and the beast) Leviticus 20:15-16

And of course God wants you to kill animals for him. Lots and lots of animals.

Indeed, the first 9 chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, wave the body parts over your head, and burn the whole bloody mess for a "sweet savor unto the Lord."

And what if you refuse to kill all these people and animals?

Here's what God will do to you.

If ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
...
I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children
...
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. Leviticus 26:14-29

So it's up to you. Burn, stone, kill and slosh the blood of dead animals round about. Or God will force you to eat your children. It's just that simple.

And now on to God's killings in the Book of Numbers.

OMG: A blasphemer is stoned to death

Remember the stoning scene from Monty Python's The Life of Brian? A man (Matthias, Son of Deuteronomy of Gath) is about to be stoned to death for blasphemy. Here's what he says in his own defense:

I had a lovely supper and all I said to my wife was, "That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah."

Well, this story from Leviticus is pretty much the same, except here two guys are fighting and one of them blasphemes. It probably looked something like this.



So they bring him to Moses and God tells Moses that everyone must stone the blasphemer to death. So that's what they did.

And they brought him unto Moses. ... And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. ... And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, ... And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses. Leviticus 24:11-23

As Matthias, Son of Deuteronomy of Gath would have said, "Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah!"

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God's next killing: When the people complained, God burned them to death

How to stone somebody (according to the Bible)

The Bible doesn't say much about how we're supposed to stone people. What size rocks to use, who can participate, etc.

It does say that you need two or three witnesses (with or without sin) and that the witnesses themselves must throw the first stones.

At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death ... The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death. Deuteronomy 17:6

And if you're stoning your wife, family member, or friend for believing in the wrong god, then you must throw the first stone (and you may not pity her).

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death. Deuteronomy 13:6-9

But who can participate in the stoning? Is stoning just for men, or can women and children throw some stones too?

Well, as usual, the Bible isn't much use here. Sometimes it says just the men (Deuteronomy 13:9, 22:21) should do the stoning, and sometimes all the people get to do it (Leviticus 24:23, Numbers 15:32, 17:7, 21:21, Joshua 7:25).

But luckily Monty Python clears the whole thing up in the Life of Brian.

Monty Python - The Life Of Brian (The Stoning)

Death by Stoning: the Bible vs the Quran

In my last post I listed 13 biblical passages that prescribe stoning as a punishment for various crimes. (The Catholic Encyclopedia says there are 18. Did I miss some? If so let me know so I can add another verse to the Everybody must get stoned song.) Here's a summary.

1.	For touching Mount Sinai	Exodus 19:13
2.	For taking "accursed things"	Joshua 7:1-26
3.	For cursing or blaspheming	Leviticus 24:16
4.	For adultery (including urban rape victims who fail to scream loud enough)	Deuteronomy 22:23-24
5.	For animals (like an ox that gores a human)	Exodus 21:28
6.	For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night	Deuteronomy 22:13-21
7.	For worshipping other gods	Deuteronomy 17:2-5
8.	For preaching the wrong religion	Deuteronomy 13:5-10
9.	For disobeying parents	Deuteronomy 21:18-21
10.	For witches and wizards	Leviticus 20:27
11.	For giving your children to Molech	Leviticus 20:2
12.	For breaking the Sabbath	Numbers 15:32-56
13.	For cursing the king	1 Kings 21:10

I thought it would be interesting to see how many times, and for what offenses, the Quran prescribed death by stoning.

The answer is zero. The Quran does not mention stoning as a punishment for any crime.

So what gives, then? Why is stoning a fairly common punishment in Islamic countries, but rare or nonexistent in Christian or Jewish ones?

Biblical Justice: Everybody must get stoned

(To the tune of Bob Dylan's "Rainy Day Woman #12 & 35")

Well, they'll stone you if you touch the holy things.

Whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death. Exodus 19:13

They'll stone you if you take accursed things.

Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

They'll stone you if you curse or blaspheme.

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

They'll stone you if you're raped and do not scream.

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

But I would not feel so all alone. Everybody must get stoned.

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Well, they'll stone you if you're an ox and gore a human.

If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28

They'll stone you if you marry when not a virgin.

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

They'll stone you if you worship other gods.

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

They'll stone you if you disobey your Pa.

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

But I would not feel so all alone. Everybody must get stoned.

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They'll stone you if you if you're a wizard or a witch.

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27

They'll stone you if you give Molech your kids.

Whosoever ... giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Leviticus 20:2

They'll stone you if you if you're a sabbath breaker.

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

They'll stone you if you curse the dictator.

Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10

But I would not feel so all alone. Everybody must get stoned.