Before going on the God's fourth killing, I thought I'd mention something about Lot, since he played such a large role in God's second and third killings.
I don't know how anyone could read the story about Lot in Genesis 19 and still believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
Lot offers his daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and then gets drunk and impregnates them. That's all the Bible says about him.
And yet Lot is one of God's special heroes in both the Bible and the Quran. It is one of the things they agree on.
Here's what the Bible says:
God ... delivered just Lot ... that righteous man. 2 Peter 2:4-8And here's the Quran:
And unto Lot we gave judgment and knowledge... And We brought him in unto Our mercy. Lo! he was of the righteous. Quran 21:74-75
Lot ... did We prefer above (Our) creatures ... We chose them and guided them unto a straight path. Quran 6:86-87
God preferred the just and righteous Lot above all his creatures. You can't get sicker than that.
15 comments:
What's really annoying is that Christians I speak with in the U.S. say they read the Bible regularly and go one to say that they understand and can interpret it better than anyone else and apply it to their daily lives. How in the hell do you apply Gen 19 to your daily life and find inspiriation or draw lessons from it? Christians pick and choose verses, leaving out the nasty bits and highlighting the surreal ones. Of the verses then chosen, they arbitrarily decide how literally or nonliterally they should be and understood.
The God described in Genesis 19 is exactly the kind of God I'd expect to be depited by primative, nomadic, Iron-Age cretins residing in limited, city-state civilizations with little knowledge of medicine, science, proper hygiene or nutrition, transportation, or communication, but possessing bucket loads about expertise regarding mysticism, hedonism, polytheistic fear and warfare.
Furthermore, I don't understand how belief in reuniting with such a God after death would console any living soul on this planet. I think you've more than adequately proven on this blog that "hey, that God guy is a freaking jerk!?
Markus, most of humanity is still a bunch of Iron-age cretins at heart.
Please note also that Lot & his slutty daughters supposedly passed through another city after fleeing Sodom so they knew they weren't the only humans alive.
Just another badly rewritten end-of-the-world story.
While I don't claim to be an expert, I am pretty sure that the Qu'ran denies the story of Lot sleeping with his children. At least that is what Wikipedia claims.
That is not to say that the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah or of Lot's wife is any less disturbing. It is just to show that in a debate with Muslims, they will not recognize the story as presented in Genesis 19.
The BMJ published an article detailing how the Bible's account of Lot and his daughters exactly repeat the stereotypical excuses offered by convicted child molesters. The Bible's version is exactly as believable as theirs.
Uzza, come to think of it, children got married by parental arrangement as young as 12.
As Lot's daughters were unmarried and living at home they must have been younger,
Cripes! lot was a righteous child molester.
kopolee,
Yeah, the Quran doesn't mention the story about Lot's drunken sex with his virgin daughters. But it does repeat the one where Lot offers his daughters to the mob of angel rapers. ("Here are my daughters! They are purer for you." Quran 11:78)
I don't know whether Mo hadn't heard the story before or whether he left it out because it was too damned disgusting even for him. In any case it isn't in the Quran (at least to my knowledge).
Steve,
Yes you are of course right, both the Bible and the Qu'ran state that Lot offered his daughters to the citizens of Sodom. So in both versions Lot isn't exactly a fantastic father figure or a "righteous" man.
And while I have no idea as to why Muhammad left out the story, one reason may be due to the fact that he wanted Muslims to be extremely obedient to the will of the prophets. (And thus his own prophecy) In his mind, they would be less apt to follow a prophet who was not "sinless". Thus he would discount any stories of the prophets doing any vile acts. (Interestingly pimping out your daughters is not considered vile) This might also be the reason that the Qu'ran does not include the story of David and Bathsheba or Solomon and his idolatry. In that sense, the Biblical characters are much more flawed, and yet arguably much more interesting. Anyway, that is just my $0.02
When I was a christian I remember hearing a sermon once about that verse where Lot is called a righteous man. We were taught it showed the forgiveness of god, and that no matter what your sins, gods would forgive them, blah blah blah... There are truly hard-core christians out there that know the bible from cover to cover, and know how to twist each and every verse and interpret it to the glory of god. You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics, but, believe me, it can be done. I know, I did it. Now I realize how stupid it all was.
See, now, this is one of the reasons I'm leaving my church after Lent.
Ever since I was a little boy, I've always been perplexed as to why God saves Lot; he clearly doesn't deserve to be rescued, as he's just as bad as his neighbors. Now I know: God made man in his own image, and therefore, by God's derangedly twisted view, the daughter-pimping, wastrel nephew Lot is "just and righteous".
You can't get more fucked-up than that.
kapole11 muhamed did not write the quran and has never claimed to be the author, the fact is that he was an unletted man he couldnt read nor write. and for the quran in its original form it was not a book it was spoken. so whenever muhammed got a revelation from god he spoke out immdiately in the public so there was absolutely no editorial process, similar to an sms as soon as you press send thats it you cannot change the text after you have sent it. so this claim tht muhammed "chose" to leave out something has no basis.
matt311, you're giving up church for Lent?
That tickled me.
Lot was not some sicko who got drunk and made his daughters pregnant. His daughters got him drunk so that they could lay with him and continue their family line. Try reading Genesis 19:30-36
stephanie,
You say that "Lot was not some sicko who got drunk and made his daughters pregnant. His daughters got him drunk so that they could lay with him and continue their family line. Try reading Genesis 19:30-36."
But Lot was a sicko who got drunk and made his daughters pregnant. Try reading Genesis 19:30-36
Only a sicko father would get drunk and have sex with his virgin daughters. Daughters don't force fathers to get drunk and have sex.
Imagine a father who claimed that his daughters forced him to get drunk and have sex with them. Does that sound like a good excuse to you, stephanie?
FYI: to those claiming Lot lived in the Iron Age. It was not the Iron Age. It was at least early enough to still be in the Bronze Age (pre-iron).
The time of Lot (& Abraham) was long before the time of the supposed Exodus. And even the Exodus is claimed to have taken place in the late Bronze Age.
Steve Wells, if you have ever been drunk before, are you aware of your actions?
And let’s take a step back further and look at the situation about Lot offering his daughters.
Genesis 19:8 “Look I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for try have come under the protection of my roof”
As a Christian - my question I ask is how could any father give his daughter to be revised by a mob of perverts just to protect two strangers?
Although it was the custom back then in Sodom to protect the guest at any cost, this terrible suggestion just reveals how deeply sin had been absorbed into Lots life. To not be hypocritical we also need to examine our own life’s and how deeply sin has been absorbed in our own life’s.
Another thing we see from this is no matter what Lots motives were, we also see an illustration of Sodoms terrible wickedness, wickedness so great that God later on had to destroy the entire city.
Have you not yourself been persuaded by this world or media or even cultures of this world? To not be hypocritical we need to also see that we humans can fall into this same thing in this day and age.
On top of that God saves Lot on the covenant(promise) he made with Abraham in Genesis 17. Only revealing even more how great God is in keeping his promises.
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